Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
-
- Addicted!
- Location: Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
'77 fuel injected two liter bus with hydraulic valves
This engine certainly has had some drawbacks. Found it in a picknpull and sat in my garage for years.
I needed an engine and tried to put this one back in service. After new rings I scavenged two mismatched heads and had them rebuilt by a local builder. He said they were workable. I installed the heads andI couldn't get it to run and had it towed to this same vw garage and they couldn't get it to run much either. I got frustrated and brought it home.
Tristessa fooled with it and we got it running but it is difficult to start and runs weakly.
After being bummed about the situation I recently went back to basics, adjust the valves, where I found that I can't adjust them. Even with the adjustment screws backed all the way out the #1 exhaust, #2 intake, #3 intake, and #4 exhaust rocker arms are pressing on the valve stem. No clackety clack.
Did I waste my money on the heads or can I maybe use shims under the rocker arms?
Thanks
Joseph
This engine certainly has had some drawbacks. Found it in a picknpull and sat in my garage for years.
I needed an engine and tried to put this one back in service. After new rings I scavenged two mismatched heads and had them rebuilt by a local builder. He said they were workable. I installed the heads andI couldn't get it to run and had it towed to this same vw garage and they couldn't get it to run much either. I got frustrated and brought it home.
Tristessa fooled with it and we got it running but it is difficult to start and runs weakly.
After being bummed about the situation I recently went back to basics, adjust the valves, where I found that I can't adjust them. Even with the adjustment screws backed all the way out the #1 exhaust, #2 intake, #3 intake, and #4 exhaust rocker arms are pressing on the valve stem. No clackety clack.
Did I waste my money on the heads or can I maybe use shims under the rocker arms?
Thanks
Joseph
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
You could, but it screams bigger issues. Take the rocker arm off and give them a look for excessive protrusion. I would think the heights of the valve stems coming out of the heads should be uniform. If they are longer, it suggests a dropping valve. But since the heads are fresh, it's an ugly thought you tell yourself couldn't be the problem. From my experience, it could be. Don't rule it out. Spacers could work, but that's a wide range of valve geometry that shouldn't be there.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
look to see if they used the aluminum pushrods vs the shorter steel ones for a hydraulic cam. The aluminum ones are for solid lifters and longer!
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Mismatched pushrods could explain it.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- SlowLane
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livermore, CA
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
As could mis-matched lifters.ruckman101 wrote:Mismatched pushrods could explain it.
neal
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
-
- Addicted!
- Location: Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Checked and the pushrods are steel and I don't know how the lifters would matter as long as they were all the hydraulic type. And no I didn't mix them up.
I've about come to the conclusion that these heads just aren't going to work and i need to search for another pair.
Joseph
I've about come to the conclusion that these heads just aren't going to work and i need to search for another pair.
Joseph
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Shim the b*tches and run the da*n thing. Why not? Have fun. Experiment! If they are ALL whacko, that is a good sign that it is merely architectural idiocy, not some dire recessed valves.mentalQtip wrote:Checked and the pushrods are steel and I don't know how the lifters would matter as long as they were all the hydraulic type. And no I didn't mix them up.
I've about come to the conclusion that these heads just aren't going to work and i need to search for another pair.
Joseph
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- tristessa
- Trusted Air-Cooled Maniac
- Location: Uwish Uknew, Oregon
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
That's pretty much what I told him the other night .. and apparently pretty much what his wife told him, too.Amskeptic wrote:Shim the b*tches and run the da*n thing.
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!
-
- Addicted!
- Location: Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Ok, I scrounged and found washers that would fit all the way to the base of the studs and I adjusted them from no slack to 1 and 1/2 turns in. Started with difficulty but seemed to have a little more power than before. I've driven it several times now and it stays hard starting and doesn't really want to idle 'til warm. After idling awhile sometimes it just slows down and dies.
Joseph
Joseph
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
That makes this an open inquiry of vast possibilities. Do your due diligence. If it is running poorly cold but better warm, check the mixture when cold. It is either too lean or too rich. Pull off the vacuum hose that leads to the fuel pressure regulator from the intake plenum. Does the idle improve? Too rich. Does it die, might be too lean.mentalQtip wrote:Ok, I scrounged and found washers that would fit all the way to the base of the studs and I adjusted them from no slack to 1 and 1/2 turns in. Started with difficulty but seemed to have a little more power than before. I've driven it several times now and it stays hard starting and doesn't really want to idle 'til warm. After idling awhile sometimes it just slows down and dies.
Joseph
What is the idle speed when warm? Is it less when cold? It should be more. It has to be, to paddle through the thick cold oil.
AAR is responsible for a sufficient cold idle speed. Etc.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Addicted!
- Location: Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Ok then. Fired it up and ran back to the engine and pulled the vacuum hose. Rpm quickly jumped to about 1800+. It held for a little while and then dropped down and would have died if I didn't replace the hose. With the hose on it tends to idle at about 650 or just slows even more and dies.
-
- Addicted!
- Location: Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Next went to AAR. 30 ohms resistance and test light while running verified current to heating element.
Can I consider the AAR as checked clear?
Also while running I checked the AFM wiper and pushing CCW caused an increase in rpm. This was with the engine somewhat warmed up.
So pulling the vacuum hose off increased the rpm when cold, meaning the engine is running rich. Moving the AFM wiper CCW increased rpm suggesting a lean condition.
Right?
Can I consider the AAR as checked clear?
Also while running I checked the AFM wiper and pushing CCW caused an increase in rpm. This was with the engine somewhat warmed up.
So pulling the vacuum hose off increased the rpm when cold, meaning the engine is running rich. Moving the AFM wiper CCW increased rpm suggesting a lean condition.
Right?
- SlowLane
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livermore, CA
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Umm, all you've done is confirm that the AAR heating element isn't open (as in open circuit, ie. infinite ohms).mentalQtip wrote:Next went to AAR. 30 ohms resistance and test light while running verified current to heating element.
Can I consider the AAR as checked clear?
You haven't checked that the AAR is open sufficiently when cold, or that it is closing up when warm. You'll need to pull it out of the vehicle to do that, or get creative with some inspection mirrors (removing the AAR will be simpler, and gives you the opportunity to inspect the pesky AAR elbow)
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Note idle RPM when warm, shut off engine, remove and plug both ends of the AAR intake hose, restart engine and note RPM.
When cold, start engine with AAR intake hose blocked as above and electrical plug removed, and note idle RPM. Reconnect hoses, reconnect AAR plug, restart, and note idle RPM.
They should give extremely street readings on a yes/no condition of your AAR functionality. A true and proper test requires removing the unit and checking for open/close when cold/warm like SlowLane says. Here is a (greatly sped up) video of a Porsche AAR opening up over the course of 10 minutes or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO6BFmDrdSE
Good luck!
Robbie
When cold, start engine with AAR intake hose blocked as above and electrical plug removed, and note idle RPM. Reconnect hoses, reconnect AAR plug, restart, and note idle RPM.
They should give extremely street readings on a yes/no condition of your AAR functionality. A true and proper test requires removing the unit and checking for open/close when cold/warm like SlowLane says. Here is a (greatly sped up) video of a Porsche AAR opening up over the course of 10 minutes or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO6BFmDrdSE
Good luck!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
-
- I'm New!
- Status: Offline
Re: Cannot Adjust 2.0 T4 Valves
Hello,
I just disassembled a '77 and it had solid lifters.... which seems to be correct based on the engine number. Are you sure you have hydraulic lifters? Solid lifters would require a matching cam shaft and push rods--and a different method of valve adjustment. Maybe a PO or uninformed shop did a mis-match? Might be worth checking. I'm particularly interested as I have and '80 that I'm thinking of converting to solid lifters as I only plan to use the vanagon occasionally during the summer and don't want to go thru the issues I've had with bleeding the hydraulic lifters.
I just disassembled a '77 and it had solid lifters.... which seems to be correct based on the engine number. Are you sure you have hydraulic lifters? Solid lifters would require a matching cam shaft and push rods--and a different method of valve adjustment. Maybe a PO or uninformed shop did a mis-match? Might be worth checking. I'm particularly interested as I have and '80 that I'm thinking of converting to solid lifters as I only plan to use the vanagon occasionally during the summer and don't want to go thru the issues I've had with bleeding the hydraulic lifters.