Obamacare ? Anyone?

[72Hardtop]

Obama proves everyday that he is more a Marxist socialist than a democrat.

Give us one example. Perhaps you could cite the actual writings of Karl Marx in your example.

Otherwise, you are spewing tired old discredited tropes. Socialism, by the way, is not a dirty word.
You ever been to the VA? Socialism.
Ever drank water out of a faucet? Socialism.
Turn on a light? Socialism.
Pulled on to an interstate? Socialism.
Are you gonna take social security and medicare? Ya socialist.
Noted that your most blood-thirsty conservative representative, Ted Cruz for example, is paid off the taxpayer dime and WE pay for his pension and healthcare!
Ever pledge allegiance to the flag? Socialist enterprise, this representative democracy.

Of course it all is to one degree or another but what we need is to work hard on keeping big brother out of making decisons for us or telling us whats best for us. More government control is not the answer nor the wisest choice.

[Bleyseng]

Oh, so Obamacare is bad? Finally a lid on health insurance costs. If you have a pre-existing condition now you are covered and can't be denied coverage. Before the ACA health insurance was a Huge moneymaker for insurance companies which is a joke for people. Give me socialism.
Wanna keep Big Brother out let's start with the Patriot Act.

[72Hardtop]

Oh, so Obamacare is bad? Finally a lid on health insurance costs. If you have a pre-existing condition now you are covered and can't be denied coverage. Before the ACA health insurance was a Huge moneymaker for insurance companies which is a joke for people. Give me socialism.
Wanna keep Big Brother out let's start with the Patriot Act.

What lid? Not being dropped has nothing to do with cost/s going up in the future?

That wasn't at all difficult for many people to dodge...you just had to know how to answer certain question when filling the paper work out. Some states had already outlawed it on the basis of discrimination prior to ACA coming into play. One thing that is coming to light are the many that now are considered making to much and are offered no subsidies thru the ACA and now have to pay high out of pocket expense/es.

[Amskeptic]

Of course it all is to one degree or another but what we need is to work hard on keeping big brother out of making decisons for us or telling us whats best for us. More government control is not the answer nor the wisest choice.

That is why I am so amazed that Big State Governments, most recently Indiana and Arkansas and almost North Carolina somehow think they have to right to butt in and tell people who they can and cannot marry, and protect others in the public sphere who smear their bigotry over the public square, they tell people by legislative fiat that God has to be a part of civic life, while other states tell doctors that they are not allowed to ask people if they have a gun in the house, but the state decides it is OK to have teachers packing heat in your kid's classroom, ya think you get to check out the teacher's gun handling ability? hell no, and Florida's big government has just outlawed any employee from using the word "climate change" or "global warming", this the government that told Terry Shiavo's husband and doctor, "no, you may not allow your permanently comatose wife to die. In Texas, the government has tried to walk into your doctor's office and demand a transvaginal ultrasounds before an abortion can be performed, don't you hate big government? I sure hate hypocrites who yell about big government all the while they are invading our lives, you can't vote now without getting government issued photo ID cards, there's big government for ya, making a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, wasn't it big government types who decided that student loans could no longer be relieved through bankruptcy, yes, it was, they relaxed banking regulations in the very same legislative cycle, you know how it is in the republican universe, privatize the profits and socialize the losses. big government is good for military contracts, but GOD forbid government should help us be our Brother's Keeper, see, we only talk about God piously, but we sure as hell can't afford to actually Live His Word, not when we need to make the Rich richer still. (and they are, 2013/2014 another 37% increase in total wealth held by the top 1 %, yay for the abundance that God Himself musta bestowed!

Anyways, I am less worried by far about government telling me what is best for me, than I am worried that Big Business is telling my government what is best for me and telling its employees what is best for them and look at Phillip Morris suing twelve countries! for violating their right to sell dangerous products due to those countries passing health laws that damaged their profits, I shit you not. The TPP will make it codified in international law.
Amazing, this corporate fascism is spreading like wildfire and we are blaming everything but the source.

[72Hardtop]

Of course it all is to one degree or another but what we need is to work hard on keeping big brother out of making decisons for us or telling us whats best for us. More government control is not the answer nor the wisest choice.

That is why I am so amazed that Big State Governments, most recently Indiana and Arkansas and almost North Carolina somehow think they have to right to butt in and tell people who they can and cannot marry, and protect others in the public sphere who smear their bigotry over the public square, they tell people by legislative fiat that God has to be a part of civic life, while other states tell doctors that they are not allowed to ask people if they have a gun in the house, but the state decides it is OK to have teachers packing heat in your kid's classroom, ya think you get to check out the teacher's gun handling ability? hell no, and Florida's big government has just outlawed any employee from using the word "climate change" or "global warming", this the government that told Terry Shiavo's husband and doctor, "no, you may not allow your permanently comatose wife to die. In Texas, the government has tried to walk into your doctor's office and demand a transvaginal ultrasounds before an abortion can be performed, don't you hate big government? I sure hate hypocrites who yell about big government all the while they are invading our lives, you can't vote now without getting government issued photo ID cards, there's big government for ya, making a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, wasn't it big government types who decided that student loans could no longer be relieved through bankruptcy, yes, it was, they relaxed banking regulations in the very same legislative cycle, you know how it is in the republican universe, privatize the profits and socialize the losses. big government is good for military contracts, but GOD forbid government should help us be our Brother's Keeper, see, we only talk about God piously, but we sure as hell can't afford to actually Live His Word, not when we need to make the Rich richer still. (and they are, 2013/2014 another 37% increase in total wealth held by the top 1 %, yay for the abundance that God Himself musta bestowed!

Anyways, I am less worried by far about government telling me what is best for me, than I am worried that Big Business is telling my government what is best for me and telling its employees what is best for them and look at Phillip Morris suing twelve countries! for violating their right to sell dangerous products due to those countries passing health laws that damaged their profits, I shit you not. The TPP will make it codified in international law.
Amazing, this corporate fascism is spreading like wildfire and we are blaming everything but the source.

I believe people are blaming them hence the wage movements, and recent wall street movements. Problem is they are governed/regulated by none other...government. They both need to share the blame equally. To wait for either to do the right thing would be like waiting for hell to freeze over.

[Bleyseng]

No big business is running the government as they supply the funds for re-election, i.e. The Koch Bros.! All these GOP controlled states screaming about "Big Government" are the most reliant of government money i.e. Food stamps, Welfare etc.

I am tired of hearing this "Big Government" complaint from the Reagan years is the solution to our countries problem. Big Military is the problem soaking up 50% of the Budget!! Let's talk about some real budget cuts there and solve the debt problem!

Let's spend money on education, health care, food and infrastructure! I can't believe how bad the roads, freeways around Seattle are now, just terrible compared to my recent trip to Europe or even lowly Suriname, a Third World country.

[Amskeptic]

No big business is running the government as they supply the funds for re-election, i.e. The Koch Bros.! All these GOP controlled states screaming about "Big Government" are the most reliant of government money i.e. Food stamps, Welfare etc.

I am tired of hearing this "Big Government" complaint from the Reagan years is the solution to our countries problem. Big Military is the problem soaking up 50% of the Budget!! Let's talk about some real budget cuts there and solve the debt problem!

Let's spend money on education, health care, food and infrastructure! I can't believe how bad the roads, freeways around Seattle are now, just terrible compared to my recent trip to Europe or even lowly Suriname, a Third World country.

As 72Hardtop noted, "when hell freezes over". We The People have been asleep at the switch. We, at this point, *cannot* just petition, just ask pretty please, for this corporate/government incest to stop. We The People have to do what We The People used to do all the time . . . take to streets in a noisy display of solidarity. We are so out of shape (I know I am)! Americans used to strike, used to protest, used to write their representatives, why we used to write letters to our local papers! I don't even know how we do it now, twitter for a flash mob on The Mall?
Colin

[72Hardtop]

No big business is running the government as they supply the funds for re-election, i.e. The Koch Bros.! All these GOP controlled states screaming about "Big Government" are the most reliant of government money i.e. Food stamps, Welfare etc.

I am tired of hearing this "Big Government" complaint from the Reagan years is the solution to our countries problem. Big Military is the problem soaking up 50% of the Budget!! Let's talk about some real budget cuts there and solve the debt problem!

Let's spend money on education, health care, food and infrastructure! I can't believe how bad the roads, freeways around Seattle are now, just terrible compared to my recent trip to Europe or even lowly Suriname, a Third World country.

As 72Hardtop noted, "when hell freezes over". We The People have been asleep at the switch. We, at this point, *cannot* just petition, just ask pretty please, for this corporate/government incest to stop. We The People have to do what We The People used to do all the time . . . take to streets in a noisy display of solidarity. We are so out of shape (I know I am)! Americans used to strike, used to protest, used to write their representatives, why we used to write letters to our local papers! I don't even know how we do it now, twitter for a flash mob on The Mall?
Colin

Spot on...Hell Americans can't even vote. Wait...wait...wait...no they don't want to vote. Hence why we have such low voter turn outs. You could have the majority of voters vote for X vs XX and XX will become the next president due to electoral majority. How asinine is that? So much for voting for president. I'll say this again...nothing will change until:

1. Term limits for all.
2. No special interest money. (No exceptions)
3. Liveable wages for members of Government.
4. A min of 4 years of military service for anyone who wishes to run for President or Vice President. (No exceptions)
...

[asiab3]

3. Liveable wages for members of Government.
4. A min of 4 years of military service for anyone who wishes to run for President or Vice President. (No exceptions)
...

3. What do you mean by this? A reduction from the congressmen and women who take huge salaries instead of hiring staff?

4. How does this help anything we've discussed here? As Bleysing pointed out, military spending is not something to be taken lightly. A mixture of presidents who served and didn't serve is like a system of checks and balances for runaway spending. Your concept bears an ominous resmblence to breeding an executive branch that would finance a special interest. Is this suddenly OK if that interest is military spending?

If I said "every president should be a teacher," how would you feel?

Robbie

[72Hardtop]

3. Liveable wages for members of Government.
4. A min of 4 years of military service for anyone who wishes to run for President or Vice President. (No exceptions)
...

3. What do you mean by this? A reduction from the congressmen and women who take huge salaries instead of hiring staff?

4. How does this help anything we've discussed here? As Bleysing pointed out, military spending is not something to be taken lightly. A mixture of presidents who served and didn't serve is like a system of checks and balances for runaway spending. Your concept bears an ominous resmblence to breeding an executive branch that would finance a special interest. Is this suddenly OK if that interest is military spending?

If I said "every president should be a teacher," how would you feel?

Robbie

1. A liveable wage based/set according to the area they represent. Unless of course you feel it's perfectly fine to continue to pay them their ridiculous six figure per year salaries all the while barley showing up for work and when they do show the results are less than stellar.

2. Any person who wishes to hold the position which serves as the 'Commanding officer' of the Armed services should first know what serving in the Armed forces is about first hand. The protection of 'Freedom' has and bears a price. The next time you are at an airshow at a military airbase (free by the way) remember the sound of the fighter jet that passes overhead...it's referred to as the 'Sound of freedom'. And the countless service men/women who serve or have served abroad in conflict so that those back home can continue to spew on the internet...


How would I feel? Well for starters we might have a much much higher high school graduation rate. Individual would still need to meet the had to have served 4 years min in a branch of service.

[Bleyseng]

Every President should be a Farmer or a Mechanic.....That every President should have military service doesn't mean he'll be a good Commander and Chief. I just think they will be more apt to be bought by the military special interests.
GWBush had military service of some sort and he started two wars that still are ongoing messes.
Senate John McCain was a POW and still loves to vote for going to War.
I don't think "Intelligence" is taught by military service, obeying orders, yes.
Term Limits is a great idea...
A small salary for members of congress is a start instead of making millionaires out of them.

[asiab3]

Every President should be a Farmer or a Mechanic.....That every President should have military service doesn't mean he'll be a good Commander and Chief. I just think they will be more apt to be bought by the military special interests.
GWBush had military service of some sort and he started two wars that still are ongoing messes.
Senate John McCain was a POW and still loves to vote for going to War.

Excellent points, though McCain did have a partial history of being more conservative with his military budget, even for a veteran. (Voted to close extraneous bases, helped strike down many expense apropriations, etc..) Yes, his "this is war" strategy post 9/11 was hasty, but I don't mind his fiscal military policy.

I don't think "Intelligence" is taught by military service, obeying orders, yes.

I find this part most troubling with the "service mandatory" mindset. I don't know the ratio of servicemen and women to those in high-ranking leadership roles, but I bet there are not many in charge who really trully make important decisions.

Serice on non-US soil is great for expanding one's world view. This is paramount to me, as the US isn't a country that sits by and lets others be. Having outer-cultural experience is a major plus in any official that works with other countries.

A small salary for members of congress is a start instead of making millionaires out of them.

I can't find the source now, but I was recently enlightened to the fact that many representitives are given upper six-figure checks to hire staff and support crews. The article mentioned many congress members taking the entire check for themselves and not hiring staff.

What happens when you elect someone who has held a job with free health insurance their whole life? Right, they think eveyone can just walk to the job store and get a job with free health insurance. This is why the ACA matters. This is why having human and sympathetic elected officials matters.

Robbie

[72Hardtop]

Every President should be a Farmer or a Mechanic.....That every President should have military service doesn't mean he'll be a good Commander and Chief. I just think they will be more apt to be bought by the military special interests.
GWBush had military service of some sort and he started two wars that still are ongoing messes.
Senate John McCain was a POW and still loves to vote for going to War.

Excellent points, though McCain did have a partial history of being more conservative with his military budget, even for a veteran. (Voted to close extraneous bases, helped strike down many expense apropriations, etc..) Yes, his "this is war" strategy post 9/11 was hasty, but I don't mind his fiscal military policy.

I don't think "Intelligence" is taught by military service, obeying orders, yes.

I find this part most troubling with the "service mandatory" mindset. I don't know the ratio of servicemen and women to those in high-ranking leadership roles, but I bet there are not many in charge who really trully make important decisions.

Serice on non-US soil is great for expanding one's world view. This is paramount to me, as the US isn't a country that sits by and lets others be. Having outer-cultural experience is a major plus in any official that works with other countries.

A small salary for members of congress is a start instead of making millionaires out of them.

I can't find the source now, but I was recently enlightened to the fact that many representitives are given upper six-figure checks to hire staff and support crews. The article mentioned many congress members taking the entire check for themselves and not hiring staff.

What happens when you elect someone who has held a job with free health insurance their whole life? Right, they think eveyone can just walk to the job store and get a job with free health insurance. This is why the ACA matters. This is why having human and sympathetic elected officials matters.

Robbie

Tough decisions are made everyday in the military. At times those decisions effect the livelihood of those who not only serve but of those who wish to reap the benefits of freedom. What's more troubling are those that believe tough decisions aren't made in the military.

[Amskeptic]

Tough decisions are made everyday in the military. At times those decisions effect the livelihood of those who not only serve but of those who wish to reap the benefits of freedom. What's more troubling are those that believe tough decisions aren't made in the military.

The *problem* with military service as a litmus test is that the training to be a military person is utterly at odds with the requirements of marshalling a country into the future.

A successful military adjustment requires:
instant obedience
unquestioning acceptance
a limited view - maggot, your whole life's meaning is to take that hill so shut up
From those beginnings, a military leader somehow evolves out of the sea of conformity and must make instantaneous decisions balls-to-the-wall on the prosecution of a military maneuver. There is no "vision" in military leadership.

A successful President has to have a broad nuanced understanding of all aspects of society. He needs to see and successfully interpret the long historical arc of the Nation, know when to back down, change the plan, holy shit negotiate? negotiate? yes, negotiate, utilize diplomacy, process diverse information, analyze the "expertise" that no soldier is even allowed to second guess. A President has to stand up to a military staff that thinks it "knows". Look at the Vietnam War and Iraq War for evidence that military leaders often lose sight of the larger picture. This is what it is.

Our Founding Fathers were not dummies. Civilian leadership of the military is critical. The military is only a tool. Inside the bubble of military leadership is the great risk of megalomaniacal narcissism. It cannot be allowed to infect the halls of government.
Colin

[72Hardtop]

Tough decisions are made everyday in the military. At times those decisions effect the livelihood of those who not only serve but of those who wish to reap the benefits of freedom. What's more troubling are those that believe tough decisions aren't made in the military.

The *problem* with military service as a litmus test is that the training to be a military person is utterly at odds with the requirements of marshalling a country into the future.

A successful military adjustment requires:
instant obedience
unquestioning acceptance
a limited view - maggot, your whole life's meaning is to take that hill so shut up
From those beginnings, a military leader somehow evolves out of the sea of conformity and must make instantaneous decisions balls-to-the-wall on the prosecution of a military maneuver. There is no "vision" in military leadership.

A successful President has to have a broad nuanced understanding of all aspects of society. He needs to see and successfully interpret the long historical arc of the Nation, know when to back down, change the plan, holy shit negotiate? negotiate? yes, negotiate, utilize diplomacy, process diverse information, analyze the "expertise" that no soldier is even allowed to second guess. A President has to stand up to a military staff that thinks it "knows". Look at the Vietnam War and Iraq War for evidence that military leaders often lose sight of the larger picture. This is what it is.

Our Founding Fathers were not dummies. Civilian leadership of the military is critical. The military is only a tool. Inside the bubble of military leadership is the great risk of megalomaniacal narcissism. It cannot be allowed to infect the halls of government.
Colin

The issue with not making it 'Part' of the requirement is...

It becomes all to easy for one to wield the sword without knowing first hand what it's like to have to face the enemy on the battle field and then ultimately have to take ones life or quite possibly have yours taken. That is a huge responsibility. When the decision is made to send troops in one must already know that winning is a must...no if's about it.

Megalomaniac narcissism already greatly exists in the halls of government. It's a big reason why our system is doomed to fail if not turned around. It's also greatly contributed by those who've never served...aka 'Corporate America'.