Itinerant Air-Cooled

Yeah, I think mine was actually a Ford Pinto part. That's what my old German mechanic at the time liked to use for this application.

I have this issue now (as of Saturday) on my 72 bus w/type 4 engine. I understand electrically how to use a Ford or similar solenoid but there's something I'm missing here:
the thing advertised on the Samba says the current for the starter goes through the ignition switch....but isn't the problem the contacts between the two large studs on the solenoid failing? That path is not through the ignition switch. Certainly in my case, I had 12v on one and not the other, with the key turned to Start.

So is the problem the heavy-duty contacts themselves not making contact, even though they move physically? (implying a "Ford type" solenoid),
Or, is the problem that the coil within the solenoid doesn't have the poop to move the heavy-duty contacts? If it's this, I can't see the remote starter kit advertised on the Samba working, as you still need that little coil to move the contacts, remote relay or not. Unless it's just overcoming that bit of voltage drop due to the wiring running to the front and back. If so, OK, but the coil is still getting heated just as much... and the solution seems like a borderline bandaid.

In all this I am assuming, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it the case that the solenoid on the starter is ONLY providing contacts with a heavy-duty, low resistance path for current from battery to starter motor, and is NOT responsible for throwing the gear out toward the flywheel, as is seen in some other starters?

As you can tell I have not investigated things yet - but right now need to keep on the road i.e. order parts asap. If the Ford remote solenoid idea works I'd rather go that way as it's faster for me to implement and I can mount it a bit farther from the heat (I hope) vs. ordering a new starter and waiting for it to arrive and spending the extra money only to have it being cooked as I drive. Or can you actually get just the solenoids (I mean the original type that go right on the starter)? I have looked for those, but so far only see entire starters for sale.

Looking forward to clarity,
Jim

The purpose of the extra solenoid is to increase the voltage the solenoid on the starter sees. It does this by removing the ignition switch and wires running all the way to the front of the bus and back from the starter circuit. Kapeech?

OK. Therefore:
-Ford solenoid is huge overkill.
-Problem is not crusty pitted high current contacts failing to make connect even though they are being pulled in.
-Solenoid still gets hot, but we are now just over the required voltage threshold instead of just under, so it will function.

I must say it seems like a borderline solution. I guess the coil of the solenoid draws an enormous amount of current. Weird to me, but hey if it works it works. I shall implement henceforth.

Jim

I am putting a hard start relay on my 79 vert. I got the relay that is shown on TS. It has red (battery), yellow (grnd), Black (solenoid), and blue (ignition). Can anyone guide me through where the blue wire goes in the wiring. Do I need to splice it or what? Thanks.

Jack in sunny Florida

Hi Jack! Does your relay have any number markings on it? German cars do well with the ISO number system, so I'm not sure about a color standard other than our "brown is ground, red is battery, black is switched," system.

There is a red/black wire from your ignition switch that currently triggers the solenoid. [Current track 7, from switch (D) to starter (C.)] This is the starter switch wire that, if your relay is exactly what is shown below, should connect to the blue wire. I prefer a crimp-on connector on the blue wire that will be non-destructive to the original vehicle wiring harness. (Of course, yours should be insulated… )



Take note that there will be another red/black wire in the semi-spaghetti of the solenoid wiring; this is the trigger wire to the double relay that activates the CSV when cranking. Leave this wire attached to the solenoid as is.

The below images are from TheSamba; is this the relay kit you have?
Robbie

asiab3 wrote:Hi Jack!
Take note that there will be another red/black wire in the semi-spaghetti of the solenoid wiring; this is the trigger wire to the double relay that activates the CSV when cranking. Leave this wire attached to the solenoid as is.

HiJack2!!

That #50 starter solenoid-to-double relay wire best be a red/white wire (on a bus) as so beautifully (not) illustrated in the above diagram. Its more significant job is to turn on the fool fuel pump during cranking as well.
Colin
(hey, Jack)

Amskeptic wrote: That #50 starter solenoid-to-double relay wire best be a red/white wire as so beautifully illustrated in the diagram.

I see red/black in 4mm wire from the key, and red/black in 0.5mm wire to the double relay 86a. (Yeah the fuel pump function is more important here, duh Robbie…) The only red/white wires I see on the late model FI Type 1 diagram above are from the battery/alternator to the front of the car.

Am I missing something?
Robbie

asiab3 wrote:

Amskeptic wrote: That #50 starter solenoid-to-double relay wire best be a red/white wire as so beautifully illustrated in the diagram.

I see red/black in 4mm wire from the key, and red/black in 0.5mm wire to the double relay 86a. duh

Am I missing something?
Robbie

Yes. You are. You are missing the fact that I am going blind.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote:

asiab3 wrote: Am I missing something?
Robbie

Yes. You are. You are missing the fact that I am going blind.
Colin

Don't think for a second that I can see that on the diagram! I had to right click and "open image in new tab" followed by a quick magnification and a Bentley consultation for confirmation.

For a second I thought the rainstorm, fireplace, and scotch was messing with my mind. Turns out, they're only messing with the ability to drive mom's convertible.
Robbie