Distributor Points

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:01 am

Yesterday it was time to tune up the bus and bug. It's nice to have two with similar systems, knock em down go drink a beer.
The bus - 1500 miles since last point set. Yes, the little tit is back, meaning the point gap is off. Take them out and file it down, no big deal, spray with electrical cleaner, reset the gap, grease the lobe. Fine.
The Beetle - 2000 miles, with identical situation.
Both are running in vacuum only distributors, well oiled and maintained by yours truly.
Is this normal for points? Did Gramps struggle with this 30 years ago or has quality fallen? I'm not going to do this every 1500 miles until I die.

Pertronix is starting to look better and better. You do hear the advice "oh keep a set of points just in case!" but has anyone here actually had a Pertronix fail? Most people seem to rave about them. You can also time them statically which is a bonus for me.
Well anyway, I went through this and thought I'd pass it on. For an added kick, all the valves in the Beetle were still spot on after 3k miles.

Westy78 · Post by **Westy78** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:13 am

hambone wrote:
Pertronix is starting to look better and better. You do hear the advice "oh keep a set of points just in case!" but has anyone here actually had a Pertronix fail?

Nope. Never touched mine again for the three or so years I used it. I did keep a set of points in the bus though. Just in case. Just because you can adjust points and file and adjust and file and adjust and file and adjust doesn't mean you should, or have to. Electronic modules may not improve on the original all that much but they sure as hell are more convenient.

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:18 am

I don't mind the pain in the ass of filing points, but I do want it to last longer than 2k miles. I think it's a materials issue, since it's happening exactly the same with 2 different vehicles.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:28 am

hambone wrote:I don't mind the pain in the ass of filing points, but I do want it to last longer than 2k miles. I think it's a materials issue, since it's happening exactly the same with 2 different vehicles.

Don't worry too much about the tit on the points. If the tit returns with vehemence, you can
A) make sure that there is no excessive oil vapor inside the distributor.
then
B) replace the condensor since it is responsible for reducing the arcing that causes these tits and craters.

After a file job (use only ignition point files since they leave a polished surface), make sure that the last step is to polish the contact surfaces with a piece of cardboard card stock. You should get at least three thousand miles between adjustments and 25,000 to 50,000 on each set of points.
Colin

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:40 am

The condensors are both relatively new.
I haven't been polishing after filing, but I do clean the points with spray electrical cleaner.
Does the tit throw off timing? Point gap? (that's a hell of a quote!)

MConverse · Post by **MConverse** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:20 am

Test the condenser and make sure it's not leaking - that would cause pitting/build up as well.

Yes I read they are relatively new, unfortunately quality is not what it used to be. Test and verify.

Good Luck

Post by **Amskeptic** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:07 pm

hambone wrote:The condensors are both relatively new.
I haven't been polishing after filing, but I do clean the points with spray electrical cleaner.
Does the tit throw off timing? Point gap? (that's a hell of a quote!)

You can slap in a set of Martian Moonscapes, and only gap by sight because the tit gets in the way of a feeler blade, and as long as the dwell is OK, you can then time as usual.
Colin

Vdubtech · Post by **Vdubtech** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:58 pm

I've had both good and bad experiences with Pertronix. One lasted in the Wedding Bus until the day I sold it, and two others have shit the bed on me, and in both cars I went back to points.

Post by **Sluggo** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:54 pm

I have a Pertronix in the Beetle and a Compufire in the Bus. Both are great but the Compufire seems like a more solid build.

Stay far away from Hot Spark. I had two fail within a few days and one fail out of the box.

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:38 pm

Kirk gave me a nice Sears multimeter with dwell, but have been too cool to use it. Tomorrow morning I'm gonna give it a shot.
Maybe I should get a tube of that official Bosch distributor lube... moly grease seems too runny. A dab of bearing grease seems OK though.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:32 am

hambone wrote:Kirk gave me a nice Sears multimeter with dwell, but have been too cool to use it. Tomorrow morning I'm gonna give it a shot.
Maybe I should get a tube of that official Bosch distributor lube... moly grease seems too runny. A dab of bearing grease seems OK though.

There's your point pitting problem right there.
Runny? Toooooooooooo much.

Just a coating around the cam and a little dam behind the leading edge of the rubbing lock. That's it. Bosch lube dries and turns into ski wax friction-enhancing rubbing block killer.
Colin

Oregon72 · Post by **Oregon72** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:59 am

I've been using the Valvoline DuraBlend grease - just a little dab 'il do ya'

On another note, I know you want the point gap to yield a dwell on the low end of the tolerance so when the rubbing block wears it stays in spec longer. On the '72 you have to remove the dizzy each time to set the gap because no engine hatch to see what you are doing - in the spirit of not splitting hairs with trial and error, what if I got a dwell of 39? Should I remove and try again or go ahead and let it wear to the recommended 47 plus or minus 3. In other words, how low of a dwell is acceptable without causing diminished spark performance.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:29 pm

Oregon72 wrote: no engine hatch to see what you are doing -
if I got a dwell of 39? Should I remove and try again

Engine hatch opening is too far from the distributor to be any good.

Dwell of 39* ? You want to know if you should try again?
Factory calls for 44-52*. I am going to wait here for you to answer your own question.
Colin

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:15 am

Dwell!
Dwell has changed my life.
.018 gap = dwell of 45 deg.
The bus ran like never before, climbing grades in 4th, type4 acceleration, smooth and quiet.
Blindly following procedure is a dark, stupid pit. Good God I can't imagine what else I'm doing "correctly"!

It took me a little while to figure out how to hook up the meter but now I know.
Thanks Kirk!

hambone · Post by **hambone** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am

Able to cruise at 65 mph no problems now. Engine even cool after a two hour run climbing grades etc. Very peppy and nice to drive.
It seems like I could handle a 70 mph sustained run, but without a tach I'm hesitant to push my luck.

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Distributor Points

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