'69 Beetle Electrical Woes (Ignition Switch & Dying)

[hambone]

Three issues, not sure if they're related:

1. The ignition switch doesn't always light the two warning lights when the key is in the correct position. You have to jiggle it a bit to the right. Also, the lock cylinder can slide out of the opening in the column. It doesn't seem like it's being held in place. It's Brazilian (of course). It almost seems like the lock cylinder has split in two.

2. Braking causes the engine to die, intermittently.

3. Engine dies intermittently, but it starts right up afterward and runs fine.

I just adjusted the points and timing.
I'm thinking it's a bad switch (the electrical part), but wondering why the hell braking would kill the engine?

[Bookwus]

Hiya hammy,

First off, before you even get into my reply, know that I'm just offering semi-educated guesses here.

As to the ignition switch and the dash lights, it sounds like you might need to overhaul the ignition switch. After having done this on my bus I'm inclined to go after old genuine VW parts (except for the electrical switch) at the bone yard to do a rebuild. The aftermarket stuff can be pretty shoddy.

The engine cutting out sounds as if it might be a carb-type problem. Possibly an adjust or a cleaning/rebuild?

[hambone]

It's definitely electrical, and probably the shoddy Brazil-switch. Thanks fer the input. Not even sure where I'd find a German switch anymore.
The question is, is it the tumbler-part, or the electrical part of the switch?
Gah, this Beetle is giving me a run for my money lately.

[Bookwus]

Hiya Ham,

Inasmuch as you are experiencing subsequent electrical problems (the dash lights) I would take aim at the electrical end of the switch assembly. Besides, it has been my experience that the electrical switch is the most likely unit (of the three) to go south.

[hambone]

I'm a bit confused. Bentley shows a switch being removed that's twice this size, but this is what slides out of my steering column:

I thought that part was locked in place anyway, why am I able to remove it?

[dtrumbo]

I think Bookwus is right, could all of your problems be caused by a progressively disintegrating ignition switch? If it's that loose, that might be causing all the intermittent engine problems, ie hit a bump, ignition cuts out, brake hard, switch moves a tiny bit and cuts the ignition off.

This is a real stretch, but the electrical portion of your ignition switch might be such a POS that it can't handle the additional current draw of the brake lights coming on. If that were the case, there could be a voltage drop happening in the switch and therefore not enough voltage going to the coil. Like I said, a stretch, but this is the same scenario that everyone installs the "hard start" relay to overcome.

[Hippie]

Can you jumper out the ignition switch with a fused hot wire directly to the ignition side of the coil? I'm thinking of driving it that way for a couple weeks to see if the problem disappears.
Of course you'd want to connect the wire right before starting and pull it off right after shutting off the engine so you don't burn up the points.



Rob

[Amskeptic]

1. The ignition switch doesn't always light the two warning lights when the key is in the correct position. You have to jiggle it a bit to the right. Also, the lock cylinder can slide out of the opening in the column. It doesn't seem like it's being held in place. It's Brazilian (of course). It almost seems like the lock cylinder has split in two.

2. Braking causes the engine to die, intermittently.

3. Engine dies intermittently, but it starts right up afterward and runs fine.

The photograph shows lock cylinders without the actual ignition switch at the end. The switch is often a composite plastic with pot metal. The spring that applies contact pressure to the contacts will work the little bent tabs that hold the plastic end to the pot metal body of the switch. I have found that just tapping the little pot metal tabs down into the plastic recesses of the switch will restore the switch. Do not allow large dangling key rings with heavy macrame and ceramic beads to hang off the ignition key.

Colin

[hambone]

I see where yer goin' Colin, but this is certainly electrical. The car runs, drives and idles wonderfully. I was sitting in it yesterday, at idle, hadn't even left the driveway. I pushed down the brake pedal and the engine instantly died, like the coil wire was pulled. I was able to duplicate it a couple times, randomly. I think the culprit is the ignition switch, but not sure if it's the mechanical or the electrical part. Well, at this point I should just be safe and replace both.
Those beautiful NOS Germans are $75 a pop! Ouch, I wish they were available for cheaper. I may have to get another crappy Brazilian. Can't believe there's no middle ground here.

[Amskeptic]

The car runs, drives and idles wonderfully.
I pushed down the brake pedal and the engine instantly died,
Those beautiful NOS Germans are $75 a pop!

Check the wiring at engine compartment as well. I think you might have a reverse light/brake light feed that is reaching the coil. Now, this sounds a little nutso, but so do you, so we're even, but try removing the reverse light inline fuse above the coil and see if your brake-light-stalls-engine symptom goes away.
Colin

[hambone]

I'll try it when I get home.
Of course the switch is still screwy so that must be dealt with.
I've replaced that $$$%%$$ switch on a '73 Super and a '74 Bus, that must be a common failure point. Well, after 40 years and shoddy aftermarket I'm not surprised.
I think this Beetle is tryin' to mess with my head.

Update: I was able to find OE German! Cool, I ordered it. Also ordered a new electrical switch, no sense screwing around.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Detai ... 13905853GR

[hambone]

I can't get the damn key out! The mechanism won't turn far enough CCW for the key to release. Everything works fine. It runs, drives and starts but the key is locked in place.

I took it all apart, but it's mechanically designed to stop where it does. Maybe a '68 only part that's lost to the ages? The problem is in the housing that holds both switch components. All other parts are OK.
I'm stumped and frustrated.....
Edit: I just talked with Bill Trafton here in Portland, it looks like '68 was a one year part for that housing. I'm going by his shop tomorrow AM and he's gonna help me out. I should be able to put a '69 in there. Lordy what a mess!!!

[spiffy]

Did ya' get that kantankerous thing fixed? That car is testing you but I am sure it will be grateful.

[hambone]

Well, it finally works. '68 indeed is a 1-year part (again). Don't believe the vendors when they say 68-70 elec. switch fits all years, '68 had a special switch NLA.
Bill Trafton is a hell of a guy. We had a myriad of switches scattered across his counter, while he was patiently mixing and matching to see what would work. Nothing would, so he pulled apart a Beetle in his mini-wrecking yard (I held the screws!) only to find it was a '68 too, no dice. So, he sold me a used '71 housing and electrial for $35. I ran to Halsey Auto and bought a new tumbler (German, only $9), took it home and what do you know, it fit! In my merriment I cut the wrong wire. (RED and black, not purple and black SNIP) Had to take it all apart and solder the wire back in.
To make a stupid story short, it all works, and now it has a locking steering column. They actually put the pre-gizmo in the '68 column. They must have seen the future. Well, the Beetle was built in August of '68 so it's almost a '69 adding to the mishmosh.
I now have a spare early switch for the Bus, and I think I'm going to replace the Mexican tumbler on the Bus with this nice NOS German one, assuming it fits.

No one should have to go through this. Well, I did. I was almost in tears today when I cut the wrong wire, but now all is well and I can go drink myself silly.
"VWs Build Character"
or
"One Year Only Parts = Madness"

[dtrumbo]

So does it run better? No intermittent stalling? We're dying, pun intended, to know!!!!