Itinerant Air-Cooled

new to the 12v circuit path find the draw game, liking these northern hemisphere winter days for stressing electrical storage, and so forth. Whoever has charging battery probs in the summer is good at scheduling,or just lucky.

had a low battery event on a 01/2013 Interstate,possible parasitic loss, possible low alt, OG regulator, and a few accessories to muddy the waters.
Have about 14.3 v now while idling briskly. replaced OG mechanical regulator with BD solid state.
Eliminated fuses with 12v LED in series off Batt + (electrons flow from neg yes, but + is easier spannering)
Aaand came up with number 7!!!
Accessory on a 1975.
just breaking for lunch and now to re-approach hunting circuit path of fuse 7. shhhhhhh.

Boxcar wrote:
new to the 12v circuit path find the draw game, liking these northern hemisphere winter days for stressing electrical storage, and so forth. Whoever has charging battery probs in the summer is good at scheduling,or just lucky.

had a low battery event on a 01/2013 Interstate,possible parasitic loss, possible low alt, OG regulator, and a few accessories to muddy the waters.
Have about 14.3 v now while idling briskly. replaced OG mechanical regulator with BD solid state.
Eliminated fuses with 12v LED in series off Batt + (electrons flow from neg yes, but + is easier spannering)
Aaand came up with number 7!!!
Accessory on a 1975.
just breaking for lunch and now to re-approach hunting circuit path of fuse 7. shhhhhhh.

Is there . . . a . . . question here?

Amskeptic wrote:Is there . . . a . . . question here?

Between tachometer (from 914) and oil temp gauge,
would either tend to draw with key off?

Boxcar wrote:

Amskeptic wrote:Is there . . . a . . . question here?

Between tachometer (from 914) and oil temp gauge,
would either tend to draw with key off?

No. As for the radio, if it has station presets or clock, it will have a nominal draw.
Fuse 7 is the known "accessory" fuse, and is hot with ignition off.
Colin

thanks, C.

popped out the always hot fuse 7 last night, with lows only in the f twenties.

good crisp start this am, so far so good.

spooling the cabeza up to hunt for lost fractions of amps...
thinking my gauge is unworthy as A. it didnt cost as much as 1/5 of a low end Fluke and B. its scale is wierd micro (m) micro amperes.
What Im looking for is of a much greater magnitude (30~50+?)of milliamps YES?
there, a clear question.

Boxcar wrote:thanks, C.

popped out the always hot fuse 7 last night, with lows only in the f twenties.

good crisp start this am, so far so good.

spooling the cabeza up to hunt for lost fractions of amps...
thinking my gauge is unworthy as A. it didnt cost as much as 1/5 of a low end Fluke and B. its scale is wierd micro (m) micro amperes.
What Im looking for is of a much greater magnitude (30~50+?)of milliamps YES?
there, a clear question.

Alternators often leak a little through the diodes. Once you have your "baseline leakage value" you can try to isolate the alternator (the hot B+ at the starter and pull the VR plug) and see if your leakage drops.
ColinOnTheRoadToTennessee

!!thanks colin!!

Tennessee is good.

alternator has not been considered. That it has huge access to the battery was c o m p l e t e l y overlooked.

?The various wattage testclipped 12vlightbulb is not awful way to roughly measure/quantify/rate amount of draw ?

I just finished 11days snowmoving at maggies farm johnsonburg NJ and now am punching lists at another house with about 20 minutes at home last fri to yell at the boiler..
15 days Itinerant With The Westy.running great, being driven with proper timing, thanks again for hipping me to that, Colin.

Boxcar wrote:
?The various wattage testclipped 12vlightbulb is not awful way to roughly measure/quantify/rate amount of draw ?

I think a multimeter would give you the best results . . .
ColinPolarVortexChasingMe

thinking more doing less here.

checked batt voltage after an hour+ daytime drive.

12.9V after drive.
12.45V after a day. parked with fuse seven plucked out.(25°f)

since im on the road also, winter 2014 still in effect ,and wiring searches in the freeezing pre spring dont sound fun,I had a thought.

since fuse seven is un keyed hot.since I have no gripes with all thats functioning on that fused power. might it not be easiest to run the circuit through a switch, and forego the scrutiny of checking and checking.
If I ran the stock analog clock, I WOULD want un keyed hot, but I do not have that clock.

Boxcar wrote:
since fuse seven is un keyed hot.since I have no gripes with all that is functioning on that fused power. might it not be easiest to run the circuit through a switch, and forego the scrutiny of checking and checking.

Errrr no. We at Itinerant Air-Cooled champion the actual diagnosis > repair over any sort of short-circuited work-around.

What does your intuition think the actual problem is?
Colin

thanks Colin,
intuition says its just alot of things contributing to a tiny amount of loss.
last night fuse 7 out.
today 9:45 am 12°ambient temp. battery 12.53v.
today 9:46 am, fuse 7 in for 3 hours,
today 11:45 am battery 12.37v.

when placing the fuse in the panel, the "suck in draw spark" is about 1/4~1/3 what a spark plug's spark on average.

its worth doing the right thing, agreed..
"the can kicked down the road often needs rekicking and rekicking.."

those few tenths under 12.6v make a difference and I want em

Straying a little from current draw sluthing... Which was all about seeking a dependable starting experience.As it is, if a stranger were to have to start it, I would expect non success.

TODAY, With 7,8,9°C outside I packed up battery in pursuit of less desperate start or jump winter protocall. Colin remembered for me that warm batteries have more CCA. This of what I seek.

It is an Interstate,vintage 01/2013. 500/625 CCA/CA. Spec'd for the auto bus. Did they know I bumped this automatic bus compression up?
No, so I may be losing a little cranking storage there. Why I didn't ask for a reccomendation based on mods? Mmm, D'ohhh my bad.
Volts from frosty the battery,in the cold?nearly 12v. Enough to start. But no room for missing that seventh time past a TDC event. So it fires before a full twice through the firing order. Just limited cranking available if no start then..

This is a simple way to see if more CCA would help? Near zero forecast for the night, so fluids should be good and viscous. Just like VT

Edit: with battery warm, inside, I wonder if I should or should not put the trickle charger on it to do this overnight test.
I am opting not to.
Just changing temperature but not boosting charge beyond what my charging system offers, for test one.

Installed battery which was showing
a little OVER 12.0 but less than 12.1.

Dont work on bus if you don't have to btw.In the cold, broke a couple of vestigial plastic pcs (air intake snork clip, & VW analysis port cover. Boo hoo) but didnt have to be.

Starting with room temp battery, still a labor filled event. Objective results here only, since I did not wish to do an absolute in field cold cranking test.
Battery has alot to push, the cold atf in the torque converter,plus 10/40 crank case oil,but it started after seven TDC events like normal.
Then a few subsequent attempts were more prompt.
I also remember putting automatic transmission selector in neutral lessens AT fluid moving duties somewhere..which helps.
Additionally running a trickle charger on low °C nights to get this battery's best absolute performance will have to do for now. A different group battery will have to be a good size replica if its to go in easily, any suggestions? If I get any invites to VT I will have a trick or two. I do not have a battery jump pack, nor would I add 40# to load with a spare battery.

Good for now I guess.balmy -6°C and sunny.//Eric

Boxcar wrote:Installed battery which was showing
a little OVER 12.0 but less than 12.1.

Battery should have measured 12.7 minimum in the house.

Boxcar wrote: Dont work on bus if you don't have to btw.In the cold, broke a couple of vestigial plastic pcs (air intake snork clip, & VW analysis port cover. Boo hoo) but didnt have to be.

Don't be breaking stuff, Mister.

Boxcar wrote: Starting with room temp battery, still a labor filled event. it started after seven TDC events like normal.
Then a few subsequent attempts were more prompt.
I also remember putting automatic transmission selector in neutral lessens AT fluid moving duties somewhere..which helps.

Did you note with your own senses that neutral was easier on starting? I know of no difference in fluid dynamics between neutral and park.

Boxcar wrote: Additionally running a trickle charger on low °C nights to get this battery's best absolute performance will have to do for now. A different group battery will have to be a good size replica if its to go in easily, any suggestions? If I get any invites to VT I will have a trick or two. I do not have a battery jump pack, nor would I add 40# to load with a spare battery.

Good for now I guess.balmy -6°C and sunny.//Eric

Another solution yet would be a dipstick heater. But remember, these cars know cold. You make sure you optimize ignition and electrical, understand that the factory knew all about loss of battery efficiency and increase in viscosity at low temps, and if your painfully slow cranking leads to a reliable start, you are done.
Colin23*In PensacolaFL-IWantARefund

Amskeptic wrote:

Boxcar wrote:Installed battery which was showing
a little OVER 12.0 but less than 12.1.

A.[Battery should have measured 12.7 minimum in the house.]

Boxcar wrote: Dont work on bus if you don't have to btw.In the cold, broke a couple of vestigial plastic pcs (air intake snork clip, & VW analysis port cover. Boo hoo) but didnt have to be.

B.[Don't be breaking stuff, Mister.]

Boxcar wrote: Starting with room temp battery, still a labor filled event. it started after seven TDC events like normal.
Then a few subsequent attempts were more prompt.
I also remember putting automatic transmission selector in neutral lessens AT fluid moving duties somewhere..which helps.

C. [you note with your own senses that neutral was easier on starting? I know of no difference in fluid dynamics between neutral and park.]

Boxcar wrote: Additionally running a trickle charger on low °C nights to get this battery's best absolute performance will have to do for now. A different group battery will have to be a good size replica if its to go in easily, any suggestions? If I get any invites to VT I will have a trick or two. I do not have a battery jump pack, nor would I add 40# to load with a spare battery.

Good for now I guess.balmy -6°C and sunny.//Eric

Another solution yet would be a dipstick heater. But remember, these cars know cold. You make sure you D.[optimize ignition and electrical], understand that the factory knew all about loss of battery efficiency and increase in viscosity at low temps, and if your painfully slow cranking leads to a reliable start, you are done.
Colin E.[23*]In PensacolaFL-IWantARefund

A. Yes less than 12.7v,less than 12.1v.Not trickle charged mind Ye.
I will apply comment D.
B. Yes there should be some logical thermal cutoff point. Wherein, one goes for some other repair nexus...My upright Bass For instance needs some gluing... Nice inside job,wheres my hide glue and clamps.
C. Yep,,curious, Park and Neut.I get a couple hundred rpms selecting neutral once started.
D. Optimizing the electrical& ignition..looks like my charging leaves a little to be desired.
E. I trust (23*) = (23°C) which might get one a "toofer"coupon, but no refund FLA.
At least fingers and other sensory devices aren't disgruntled by 23*~not awful I say.