Itinerant Air-Cooled

Hey Guys n Gals,
Mods, please don't flog me if this is in the wrong spot. I have developed a noise coming from the left rear wheel. It's not a grind and not a clunk. CV's have been relatively repacked (last 15,000 miles) with new boots and no rips.

The noise is similar to what a tight spring might make when is is really stretched hard and then the tension is let off. It happens once a revolution. It happens whether the brakes are applied or rolling away from a stop. It seems to make the sound louder with making a right turn and the sound disappears with making a left swerving turn.

I honestly don't think it is a CV noise. I adjust my brakes more frequently than any of the other bus drivers I hang with. Shoes are relatively new as well. Within the last 10K miles. Years ago I had a spring let go inside a drum and it made a scraping, grinding noise. This isn't it.

I suppose it is one of the rear wheel bearings. I haven't read much about servicing these bearings here or on TS. I know my chassis is 2K shy of 200K miles and I have never even thought about pulling the big 56mm nut off. I would assume that grease doesn't last 35 years and I could use some service.

I was hoping Colin had a nice organized write up about every tool needed and what in the Bentley is overkill. (including starting and ending shots of the dash clock )

I read the Bentley procedure and specialized VW tools with pullers and presses look like a PIA. Once i'm in there, I want to do it right the first time and be done with it for a while.

I really don't think my torsion arm bushing need talcum powder. It makes that noise while moving at a slow creep on level ground.

Any advice, or good writes up are greatly appreciated.

jmstu76 wrote:Hey Guys n Gals,
Mods, please don't flog me if this is in the wrong spot. I have developed a noise coming from the left rear wheel. It's not a grind and not a clunk. CV's have been relatively repacked (last 15,000 miles) with new boots and no rips.

The noise is similar to what a tight spring might make when is is really stretched hard and then the tension is let off. It happens once a revolution. It happens whether the brakes are applied or rolling away from a stop. It seems to make the sound louder with making a right turn and the sound disappears with making a left swerving turn.

I honestly don't think it is a CV noise. I adjust my brakes more frequently than any of the other bus drivers I hang with. Shoes are relatively new as well. Within the last 10K miles. Years ago I had a spring let go inside a drum and it made a scraping, grinding noise. This isn't it.

I suppose it is one of the rear wheel bearings. I haven't read much about servicing these bearings here or on TS. I know my chassis is 2K shy of 200K miles and I have never even thought about pulling the big 56mm nut off. I would assume that grease doesn't last 35 years and I could use some service.

I was hoping Colin had a nice organized write up about every tool needed and what in the Bentley is overkill. (including starting and ending shots of the dash clock )

I read the Bentley procedure and specialized VW tools with pullers and presses look like a PIA. Once i'm in there, I want to do it right the first time and be done with it for a while.

I really don't think my torsion arm bushing need talcum powder. It makes that noise while moving at a slow creep on level ground.

Any advice, or good writes up are greatly appreciated.

I do not have the time to give a proper response, but it sounds like you have something binding and releasing as the wheel rotates. Emergency brake cable/lever, shoe retainers if your bus has them, if this noise is most apparent at slow speeds, sort of a mechanical ticking in time with wheel rotation, then remove the drum and look closely for contact marks. Worn wheel bearings rumble like a subway train, and they have play that you can feel with the wheel off the ground when you agitate the wheel.
Colin

Ok Colin, I pulled the drum twice. The first time I pulled it, I found no rub marks, no metal, no rust or rocks stuck in the drum groove on the outer lip. My backing plate isn't perfect, but it also isn't rubbing anywhere. I did find shoes in good condition with lots of material left. E-brake cable and spring were in the correct place and not rubbing.

Frustrated, I put it back together and immediately the rubbing/screeching continued. All lugs were tight.

Fast forward a week. I bought 2 cans of brake cleaner and a couple of brushes and I planned on pulling the shoes out, inspecting everything again, cleaning and scrubbing.

I pulled the hub cap and noticed that the "big nut" had been making pretty good contact with the inside of the hub cap. Hmmm, I though, I don't remember that. Immediately I thought that maybe my hub cap had been bumped or nicked and the dome of the cap wasn't as high as it was supposed to be. Or the fact that they are most likely Chinese re-pops and they didn't get it right. I pulled the drum again, sprayed everything down and started scrubbing with the brushes. Before I took the shoes out, I reached down and tried to move the big nut with my hand that is supposed to be torqued down to 250 ft/lbs. Right, right??? The cotter pin was present, but the nut moved with my bare hand.

OOOOOHHHHHH. That could be a problem.

I removed the cotter pin by destroying it. I don't have the correct socket or a breaker bar big enough. Nor do I have a torque wrench that comes even close to 250 ft/lbs.

I do have a large crescent wrench and a BFH. So I smacked on the end of the crescent until the nut begrudgingly turned an 1/8 of a turn past where it originally was. I had to turn it an 1/8 of a turn to get a new cotter pin in.

Guess what??? no more screeching noise. I hope the noise was the end of the splined shaft pressing against the hub cap.

My questions are as follows:

How did the nut loosen up? And what does this mean? Also, how does one re-torque the big nut without a huge torque wrench or just with a cheater bar. I'm worried someone is going to tell me that I have damaged my rear wheel bearings and/or the stock tolerances are no longer there indicating excessive bearing wear and I must acquit, I mean replace rear bearings. Or that my big crescent, BFH method will never work in the long run...

Any thoughts?

Re; Homeschool torquin':

2 foot cheater bar (or 2' out from center); 200lbs (or yer standard wrencher) should be 400ft/lbs (or gutn'tight). Adjust accordingly.

Someone correct my math if needed, please.

Torque = Force x Distance. Rearranged, then: Distance = Torque / Force. You are the force, and therefore you adjust the distance accordingly. For example... if I weigh 160 lbs. and I want to torque the big nut to 250 ft-lbs...

Distance = Torque / Force = 250 ft-lbs / 160 lbs = 1.5625 feet

1.5625 feet = 18-3/4"

So, I'd make sure the breaker bar was parallel with the ground (so that gravity will pull me straight down) and stand on the bar 18-3/4" from the center of the big nut. That'd give me 250 ft-lbs.

Make sense?

sped372 wrote:Torque = Force x Distance. Rearranged, then: Distance = Torque / Force. You are the force, and therefore you adjust the distance accordingly. For example... if I weigh 160 lbs. and I want to torque the big nut to 250 ft-lbs...

Distance = Torque / Force = 250 ft-lbs / 160 lbs = 1.5625 feet

1.5625 feet = 18-3/4"

So, I'd make sure the breaker bar was parallel with the ground (so that gravity will pull me straight down) and stand on the bar 18-3/4" from the center of the big nut. That'd give me 250 ft-lbs.

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense. Now what size socket do I need again? In my head I have 56 mm rumbling around but I have no idea if that is correct.

46 mm

sped372 wrote:
So, I'd make sure the breaker bar was parallel with the ground (so that gravity will pull me straight down) and stand on the bar 18-3/4" from the center of the big nut. That'd give me 250 ft-lbs.

Make sense?

bouncing on the bar will increase the torque considerably. So if you calculate your weight and distance from center and are going to stand on it, don't bounce if you don't want to go over the torque.

Good point! Just a nice, slowly applied load. No bouncies.

P.S. Yes, there is a reason the nut went loose even staked by a cotter. Worn or dried out rear wheel bearings, and eaten spacer washer thrust surfaces. Ask Neal Ruckman about that one.
Colin

Ayep, been there. scraping sounds on the corner, the back of the drum where it mates to the axle hammered in a good 16th of an inch so that yep, the nut was loose. Tried new bearings. Nope. Finally filed the lip off the drum there and stuck a spacer washer in between. So far so good. Going to be pulling the drums again soon to do the brakes, so I can check on wear on the driver's side, spacered just over a year now.


neal

Hello all,
I wish I had seen this thread sooner. I have developed the rear wheel scrape/squeak too.

Heard best below 25 MPH, Changes with speed. Changes in volume/ stops altogether when turning right or left.

Replaced CV joints on that side, Also noticed some slight rubbing where the rear shoe seats in (shiny spot of less than a 1/8th of an inch.
Replaced a slightly warped drum to alleviate this. Still have the same noise. No visible rubbing anywhere else.

Sounds similar to ruckman101's issue, but the drum comment above makes me think he has an early bay?

Mines a '76 Westy.

I have never messed with the castle nut before, and would like to anticipate everything I might need to get in and out in one shot.
Wheel bearings are due for a greasing on both sides anyway, so I guess the time has come.

As it is not a constant grinding can I assume that the wheel bearings are OK?

How much play should I have at the tire when rocking in the 12:00/6:00 and 3:00/ 9:00 directions?

What places/parts should I be looking at to replace/repair?



Thanks!

Zero play to just the "feel" of it. Can't remember the number if you put a dial indicator on it.