Clutch Disk and Pressure Plate - German or Brazil?

[hambone]

Brazilian early 200 mm complete kit (based on flywheel size???) $100
German complete kit $300

Worth the extra money? Or should I just stick with Brazil?

The Geman PP is listed as "3 arm heavy duty". I'm thinking this may be better for crazy 1st gear mountain stuff. But I don't know if that's certain.

Thank you.

[RSorak 71Westy]

Get the Brazilian diaphragm clutch rather than the Borg& Beck German one.

[hambone]

Really? that's a surprise. I always figgured German was best.

[Amskeptic]

The Geman PP is listed as "3 arm heavy duty". I'm thinking this may be better for crazy 1st gear mountain stuff. But I don't know if that's certain.

That is old technology, hambone, the three arm pressure plates. I do like them when they are well-assembled. Their dimensions will be more assurable inside the bell housing than the diaphragm finger style plates that need that collar to work with your earlier floating release bearing.
The finger diaphragm new style pressure plates are the better technology, but the execution of that technology can be suspect. So can rebuild older three arm pressure plates, I suppose, but new old stock three arm pressure plates are trustworthy. You cannot bang them up on engine installation though, they hate that.
Also, the earlier genuine German Fitchel and Sachs pressure plates are intrinsically better balanced than the crap coming out now. You can ask Jake Raby about the brand new pressure plates that are impossible to index (pilot) to the flywheel much less balance.
Colin

[hambone]

Thanks Colin, I was afraid of that. You can't get the later style PP from Germany no-more, for early bays.
So it's either cruder technology but better mfg. or better tech and poorer mfg. Great choice right there.

[hambone]

Hey will this work for a '69 bus with a new engine? Or is the flywheel/trans the limiting factor?

http://www.oeveedub.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... lutch-kits

[Amskeptic]

Hey will this work for a '69 bus with a new engine? Or is the flywheel/trans the limiting factor?

http://www.oeveedub.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... lutch-kits

Looks fine. But you have to do your due diligence, regardless. Order carefully, ask questions, inspect at delivery for packing damage, and inspect parts against your old ones for dimensions.
Colin

[hambone]

Thanks Colin. Why does it say '71-79? I probably still have the earlier flywheel, not sure if that would work....
I'll give OE a call and see what they say.

[vdubyah73]

Why does it say '71-79?

Because they have whatever size your application calls for, in stock. They'll wanna know what year or flywheel size you have, when you call.

[hambone]

I'll betcha it's because they don't stock the earlier throwout bearing.

I've also noticed that the later PP doesn't have the metal ring on top of the many little "fingers"...is that due to different throwout bearings?

Of course there's Sachs Germany and ACTUALLY MFD. in Germany. A crock.
Bus Depot's "German" clutch parts (prob fine):
http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=KF19301

[Amskeptic]

I've also noticed that the later PP doesn't have the metal ring on top of the many little "fingers"...is that due to different throwout bearings?

Please commit this to memory and look at your Bentley besides.

"Early" transaxles did not have a release bearing guide sleeve bolted to the transaxle. They had a flopping floating release bearing that happily found concentricity with the Early style pressure plates with that broad ring retained to the three arms.

"Late" transaxles do have a release bearing guide sleeve bolted to the transaxle right smack dab in the middle of the bell housing hole. These release bearings can work with the many-little-finger pressure plates.

You can use the late many-little-fingers pressure plate in the Early no-guide-sleeve transaxle IF you put the broad ring adapter deal on the new pressure plate.
Colin

[hambone]

Excellent, thank you. So many freakin details....how the hell do you keep all the changes in your head??? And for multiple models no less. I guess your Itineraries have helped too.

[hambone]

Ok I'm in a pickle. Due to poor quality (man Colin called it, I shoulda listened about the Brazilian PP) I'm down to 3 choices:

1. Kennedy Stage 1. Powerful but maybe too rigid. Lots of stories out there of breaking cables and throwout shafts. Hard to drive in traffic.

2. German 3 arm. German but old technology. Can they be balanced?

3. Have the machine shop pin the PP to the existing flywheel and balance it that way. (this is the machine shop's 1st choice BTW)

Anyone have an opinion? Gotta figure something out in the next couple days.

[vdubyah73]

If you balance the flywheel and clutch together, if you ever need a new pressure plate you will need to remove the flywheel and re-balance as a pair. Pressure plates sometimes just collapse. Stage 1 KEP shouldn't be a hassle just use a stock clutch disc and drive it. I've had one in my buggy for about 9 years now. Same clutch since I put a Bernie Bergman engine in the '73 bug that became my '73 buggy. When I put the CPR racing engine in I reused the pressure plate and the disc.

[Amskeptic]

Ok I'm in a pickle. Due to poor quality (man Colin called it, I shoulda listened about the Brazilian PP) I'm down to 3 choices:

1. Kennedy Stage 1. Powerful but maybe too rigid. Lots of stories out there of breaking cables and throwout shafts. Hard to drive in traffic.

2. German 3 arm. German but old technology. Can they be balanced?

3. Have the machine shop pin the PP to the existing flywheel and balance it that way. (this is the machine shop's 1st choice BTW)

Anyone have an opinion? Gotta figure something out in the next couple days.

It is a toss-up.
If you can trust your machine shop to do good work, that sucker should work OK for you.

A German 3 arm properly assembled and balanced with your flywheel will work well too.

Does Kennedy have street pressure plates with just 1000 lbs clamping force and decent leverage to give you an easy enough pedal? Your maximum torque, they should know, is only 81 ft/lbs.