02/27/2015
I recently put this 002, 3-rib transmission up for sale in the Pgh area "CL'" for high dollars and was quickly baraged by local 'sand-railing, tranny destroyin', shallow pocketed' potential buyers. "Hey, I'll give ya a hundert dollars fer it as it sits", "All I want it fer is the ring and pinion", blah, etc, blah. This transmission came from a 1972 Transporter 'parts bus' that I had acquired and was intended to be my 'back-up' trans. One of the more serious yahoo's asked a few questions that I was not prepared to answer - does it go into all
gears?, does it have reverse? is the fluid 'burnt'? I thought I should check these things out before any further selling. I searched for some wisdom on 'another' VW Site; after reading hours of mind numbing transmission debates, I decided to check back here. BTW, thanks again CK for the 'get back on track' approach for diagnostics. I found a few things:
-The shaft moves easily in and out. Wrapped heavily in duct tape (sorry no leather available), I could easily vise grab the end and gently force the motion
-The 17mm Fill plug, when cleaned, easily backed out with small breaker bar assist. It looks like someone had removed the 'fill plug' at sometime. Actually, it looks like someone 'peened' the plug out - animals!
-The fluid level seemed low; perhaps 1&1/2 qt. low
-The fluid did not smell burnt
-The drain plug, when cleaned, appeared to be brand new, untouched, never. No scratches, beautiful threads, 17mm fit perfectly
-There was no beard, none. I thought that there would be a beard and I was prepared to photograph.
-The fluid was slightly darkened, but still seemed clean. I captured about 1/2 cup in a clear glass dish (do not tell wife!) and it was easy to see thru the fluid.
-I found very few and very tiny particles in the drain pan after settling overnight (see pic).
Ok, well, now I don't know what to do. I deleted the 'CL' sales ad; I am considering keeping the transmission (fill it up, check for leaks, bag it up, put it back on the shelf). Here are the questions -
How do you determine if a transmission is engaging all gears (and even 'reverse')? Is that even possible? The tranny is lashed to a dolly and has no 'shift' mechanism attached. I can get the differentials to move by spinning the rear driveshaft. Still, how do I know what gear I am in (if any)?
Also, one 'potential buyer' wanted to stop over, stand the transmission on end, remove the 8 nuts holding the nose cone (?) and check something (I don't remember what). I was greatly opposed to doing any on-the-fly disassembly especially if it caused the 'buyer' to back out leaving me with a partially disassembled transmission (and probably a toxic waste dump on the garage floor).
What else should I be looking for and checking?
Please enjoy the photos, advice and comments appreciated. I'm thawing out now, getting a sammich and some coffee and heading back to the icebox (garage).
Thanks, they don't call me runamuck for nothing - Tim
002, 3-Rib Transmission Check
- Runamuck Bus
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Western PA
- Status: Offline
002, 3-Rib Transmission Check
Endeavor to Persevere.
'72 Weekender
'72 Weekender
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: 002, 3-Rib Transmission Check
1 to 1/2 Qt low means the upper bearing "could" have a lot of wear/slop in them causing a "whine" going down the road. Without pulling it apart or running in a bus it's pretty hard to guess the gears/synchro's/diff so it's a "Core". Sell it to the bus crowd instead of the sandrail nuts.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: 002, 3-Rib Transmission Check
The fluid level greatly depends on the pitch of the transaxle; how level was it when you tested the level?
…It does have the shaft sticking an inch or two out of the nose cone, right?
The off road buggy types get the rear end off the ground and don't mitigate the throttle while the tires are in the air. This gives the ring and pinion (and EVERYTHING really,) quite a shock upon landing, and it can strip out gears. I've seen what they look like disassembled, and I'll never give a good transaxle to a buggy owner for this reason. Perhaps you could spin the output flanges slowly by hand a really feel for any bit of drag or crunch?
Robbi
While it is somewhat lacking in diagnostic merit, you can get the transaxle into each gear with your hands on the shift rod. Imagine you're moving the shifter in the bus; now think through the linkage. Pushing the knob into first pushes the shift shaft back. Going right with the shift knob (like heading for 3-4) rotates the shift shaft clockwise when looking AT the transaxle nose cone. Reverse rotates the shaft the opposite way. If you think through this process with your braniac spatial reasoning skills, you should be able to push the nosecone shift rod into each gear with grippy gloves and a clean shaft. I did it with bare hands, and I certainly wouldn't want bare vise-grips on the metal shaft. This will tell you or prospective buyers if it "goes into all the gears."Runamuck Bus wrote: How do you determine if a transmission is engaging all gears (and even 'reverse')? Is that even possible? The tranny is lashed to a dolly and has no 'shift' mechanism attached. I can get the differentials to move by spinning the rear driveshaft. Still, how do I know what gear I am in (if any)?
…It does have the shaft sticking an inch or two out of the nose cone, right?
The off road buggy types get the rear end off the ground and don't mitigate the throttle while the tires are in the air. This gives the ring and pinion (and EVERYTHING really,) quite a shock upon landing, and it can strip out gears. I've seen what they look like disassembled, and I'll never give a good transaxle to a buggy owner for this reason. Perhaps you could spin the output flanges slowly by hand a really feel for any bit of drag or crunch?
Robbi
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Runamuck Bus
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Western PA
- Status: Offline
Re: 002, 3-Rib Transmission Check
The transaxle was very level when the fluid level was checked; I was surprised how deep I had to dip my 'pinky finger' in before I detected fluid.
I spent a good deal of time with the hardware after my initial post. I used thickly wrapped duct tape and loosely clamped vise grips on the shaft; it was not bare metal to metal. The shaft is sticking out of the nose cone. There are not any scars on the shaft from the clamp. I was able to detect 3 'clicks' in the nosecone shift rod and with the slight rotation I was able to find all the forward gears (as you said, I imagined that I was shifting). I wasn't bright enough to rotate the shaft the other way to find reverse. It was very cool to see this all in action, I'm sure I had that big, stupid grin on my face.
I refilled the transmission with the hypoid oil of the type specified in my 'early model' Bentley. In spite of my most cautious efforts, I still make a great mess but I was fortunate enough to stop just as the fluid reached the fill level. That sucker feels really smooth now, the clean-up process took almost as much time as all the other work. I let it sit for a while and the level looked fine, no leaks were detected. The transmission has been 'bagged' and is back on the shelf; this one is not going to the 'railers'.
Thanks folks for the feed back. I had pics, but could not get them to attach.
I spent a good deal of time with the hardware after my initial post. I used thickly wrapped duct tape and loosely clamped vise grips on the shaft; it was not bare metal to metal. The shaft is sticking out of the nose cone. There are not any scars on the shaft from the clamp. I was able to detect 3 'clicks' in the nosecone shift rod and with the slight rotation I was able to find all the forward gears (as you said, I imagined that I was shifting). I wasn't bright enough to rotate the shaft the other way to find reverse. It was very cool to see this all in action, I'm sure I had that big, stupid grin on my face.
I refilled the transmission with the hypoid oil of the type specified in my 'early model' Bentley. In spite of my most cautious efforts, I still make a great mess but I was fortunate enough to stop just as the fluid reached the fill level. That sucker feels really smooth now, the clean-up process took almost as much time as all the other work. I let it sit for a while and the level looked fine, no leaks were detected. The transmission has been 'bagged' and is back on the shelf; this one is not going to the 'railers'.
Thanks folks for the feed back. I had pics, but could not get them to attach.
Endeavor to Persevere.
'72 Weekender
'72 Weekender
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: 002, 3-Rib Transmission Check
An installed transaxle points 3* down towards the nose cone. This has a distinct effect upon the transaxle oil level.Runamuck Bus wrote:The transaxle was very level when the fluid level was checked; I was surprised how deep I had to dip my 'pinky finger' in before I detected fluid.
Rotationally, there are three positions:Runamuck Bus wrote: I was able to detect 3 'clicks' in the nosecone shift rod and with the slight rotation I was able to find all the forward gears (as you said, I imagined that I was shifting). I wasn't bright enough to rotate the shaft the other way to find reverse.
I clockwise * 3/4
II middle * 1/2
III counterclockwise * reverse.
NOW THEN, there are three discrete push/pull detents only in the 1/2 and 3/4 gates:
Reverse is a single pull available only if you are in the middle detent full counterclockwise. You can feel the Rube Goldberg contraption in there do its major levering clanking when you engage reverse. You can also see it through the fill hole.
Bless you for that. The teeming hordes of onanistic locusts in search of idle amusements will starve us all if we do not stash within our garage larders, the precious few remaining parts.Runamuck Bus wrote: transmission is not going to the 'railers'.
ColinWhatAmISomeKindaPreacher?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles