The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

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asiab3
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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 am

I'd probably just wear my Inspector Otto outfit and hand you GumOut when needed.

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I need this rain to stop so I can put more miles on the new engine.

It's toying with my mind how painless it's been compared to the old engine. In 2014 or so, I had a carburetor missing parts that refused to idle when compounded with the friction of a new build, an oil cooler seal leak extravaganza, (Buddy just wanted to be like Chloe,) and routinely loosening valve adjustments for the first 1,000 miles.

The new engine valve adjustments were three or four hours tight after the cam break-in, about an hour or less tight after the first ring break-in, and only the #4e valve moved one hour after that. Two adjustments in a row have been completely stable, and we've got about 200 miles on it. It's dry as a bone, and I was ready for the tight new engine by giving the big brass idle speed screw seven turns out before I even fired it up the first time.

I think a pinned thread on engine break-in could be useful here. If we in fact are the best people to build our own engines, it seemed silly that I had to skim-read thirty or so threads before I felt like I had a grasp on break-in the first time. Wilson is ok, John @ AirCooled.net has a decent tech article too… Even if we don't build our own, breaking in a purchased long-block requires pretty much the same steps. Many people I talked to seem to glaze over in the face when I ask them what they did for their new engines…

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:11 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 am
I'd probably just wear my Inspector Otto outfit and hand you GumOut when needed.
Robbie

I dunno, Robbie, I haven't been too good at formal appointments lately ...

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BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:05 pm

While I greatly appreciated the belly laugh, I instantly knew it was photoshopped because Colin doesn't do hugs. ;)

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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tommu
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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by tommu » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:21 pm

Checklists. I think succinct but complete checklists for engine building, breaking in and maintenance would eliminate a lot of the unknowns. You may need to read more about Step 55 'Insert Main Bearing Dowels' but at least you'd know to do it and that you had done it..

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:01 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 am
It's toying with my mind how painless it's been compared to the old engine.

Perhaps you are becoming more comfortable with all of this.

My first engine overhaul worked fine, I got another 50,000 miles before I sold the car, but lordy do I remember the terror in those first few minutes. BMW 2002 1981.
The next overhaul, the machinist set the valve stem-to-guide clearances too tight and that woke me up to the fact that headaches can come even if you did good work ... Road Warrior at 146,000 miles.
The next overhaul, the machinist put in crap-for-cam-bearings and he had to redo the lower end to replace them. Road Warrior at 220,000 miles while I was a student at U.C.L.A.
And that was it for me, no more farming out assembly. I have done it all ever since. I wish I had taken the plunge sooner, but 1984 had no internet help.
First everything overhaul all by MYSELF, was the third Road Warrior engine refresh at 320,000 miles in 1991, and I drove it across the country the next day. 100,000 miles later, I discovered that the right case half has a dowel too, you know, if you remember to put it in. Fourth engine refresh was in Glendale parking lot at 419,000 miles 2002, fifth was in my dining room in 2002 after the Winnie Texas fiasco at 435,000 miles, insta-teardown in Indiana 2007 with VWBusrepairman for just a cam gear, and my last engine work was internet used heads and used pistons from satchmo at 516,000 miles. Even though it looks like a troubled history up there, engine always started right up and usually drove 100,000 miles until this latest round of shoddy parts and indifferent machinists woke me up to the New Age.
It is all fun.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:12 pm

In 2012 at 47 miles, I paid a shop $90 (my entire life savings after buying the bus,) to show me how to check for vacuum leaks with GumOut. I had no choice but to do it all after that.
In 2013 that Amskeptic fellow told me I was better off building my own engine anyway. (And that I better, because the original was junk.)
In 2014, I screwed up a few things, but it has been a fun ride.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:08 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:12 pm
In 2012 at 47 miles, I paid a shop $90 (my entire life savings after buying the bus,) to show me how to check for vacuum leaks with GumOut. I had no choice but to do it all after that.
In 2013 that Amskeptic fellow told me I was better off building my own engine anyway. (And that I better, because the original was junk.)
In 2014, I screwed up a few things, but it has been a fun ride.

Robbie
Robbie? I have forgotten so much. So have you.

It was 2014! The BobD imparted/infused you with that Volkswagen Excellence thing. Thank-you, BobD.

So you had horrid overheating, apparently. What was the final determination?
ColinYeahIUsedToWorkOnTheseBabies
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:37 pm

Yikes, it Was 2014! I guess I spent two years farting around with what seemed like a toy Volkswagen before realizing it was a serious car. The overheating was caused by the aftermarket cylinder heads having such deep plug wells that no amount of careful CHT sender ring installation could avoid snagging the crimp on the cylinder head and allowing combustion gasses out. A real case of gauges creating more problems than solutions…

Thank you indeed, Colin AND BobD.

--

New engine has a bit more crankcase pressure at idle than I would like. Oil level dropped half a quart in 150 miles. I hope those rings settle down; my cleaning was RUTHLESS compared to the last engine.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:13 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:37 pm
New engine has a bit more crankcase pressure at idle than I would like. Oil level dropped half a quart in 150 miles. I hope those rings settle down; my cleaning was RUTHLESS compared to the last engine.

Robbie
Is it a net pressure, as in actual total volume of air must leave the crankcase, or are you experiencing a lot of pulsing pressure that also has subtle breathing inward interspersed in between?

A net actual increase in crankcase air does suggest blowby (ya rings need to rotate some more to stagger the gaps closed again <hopeful).

Air cleaner flap weight bobbing properly?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:55 pm

It is a pulsing pressure. When I gently set the oil cap on, it rapidly bounces up and down. Road draft boot shows some oil expulsion.

The bob weight is free to bob, but it likes to bounce at idle, about two bounces per second.

Fan pulsating beats greatly reduced. Compiling data on generators/fans/hubs/balance now.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:11 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:55 pm
It is a pulsing pressure. When I gently set the oil cap on, it rapidly bounces up and down. Road draft boot shows some oil expulsion.

The bob weight is free to bob, but it likes to bounce at idle, about two bounces per second.

Fan pulsating beats greatly reduced. Compiling data on generators/fans/hubs/balance now.
Robbie
I think you are good, but see if you can get a vacuum gauge manifold reading high up the intake where everybody has dampened out.
For fun and benchmark purposes, what is your cylinder rpm drop/ea?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:10 am

I have not checked each cylinder drop at idle. However, Buddy did just knock out 1,100 miles with nothing more than my previously-used dirty swap meet condenser getting weird at 90,728 miles… They sure don't make things like they used to…

Fun engine facts of the trip:
- I have not carried a spare condenser that fits my car for the last 89,000-something miles. Luckily I stocked up two weeks ago.
- CHT readings did not change as I retarded the timing 3° from spec to appreciate gorgeous smoothness on acceleration with no loss in fuel economy. (Averaging 20mpg @ 62mph, with stints of off-roading and 70mph "gotta pass this texter" moments.)
- Oil consumption is down to losing about 1/2 quart over 800-ish miles. VERY good improvement over the post-Colorado engine.
- Engine did not care that seven adult men, 180 pounds of tools, and a cabinet needed to get to a baseball game on time in Phoenix Saturday night and remove a perfectly running Type 4 in Palm Springs on Monday morning at 8am.

Colin, I'll be in Oregon for a while in June. If you end up taking a later bus on tour, you are welcome borrow Buddy for a week or two and get your Type 1 Fix in. I think it's pretty nice.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:24 pm

Tristessa nailed it on TheSamba… Recognize this part that came out in my oil change this afternoon?

Image

Image


The red paint is the giveaway… :geek: I've only got 12,000 miles to go on this road trip…
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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tommu
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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by tommu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:56 pm

Bugger. I'm sure you were as careful as can be both with the build and fixing that case saver. Good luck with the rest of the Journey.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:12 am

Update: it’s an oil control ring from cylinder #2. You know, where the green and red tabs come together to ensure proper assembly? You know, the cylinder that I had off this year for case surgery? The one that would keep that carbon build up off my #2 plug?

I can guess on the size of new rings only, or order a single piston and hope it’s close enough to balance... Good news is I have two weeks off starting today!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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