Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

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wcfvw69
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Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:38 pm

We've all done it, right? While we are working on our VW's, we find something that seems off a bit. The little voice in our head says "you should really replace that" yet, we foolishly ignore that voice and reason behind it and pay for it in a big way later.

I'll share my recent example. I was battling with a finicky German Solex 34-3 swap meet carb that my dual port bus needed to replace the H30/31 and adapter on it. I tore the carb apart and sent just the base out to get the throttle shaft bushings redone by Tim at Volksbitz. During the disassembly and reassembly, I checked the fuel cut off valve that rests against the carb float. It "kinda" felt a bit sticky but I spun the tip, applied a bit of oil and felt like it was working good enough to reinstall. Most of the "new" shut off valves sold in the rebuilt kits are less than desirable. So, I finally got the carb working nicely and the bus was running great with the DVDA I also installed.

Fast forward to today. I rebuilt an original Pierburg fuel pump with the cut off valve in it w/a NOS rebuild kit. I installed the pump and fired the bus up with a fuel pressure gauge inline. The bus ran for about two minutes and died and would not restart. I "assumed" the fuel pump rebuild wasn't successful. So, I unbolted the pump from the engine and took it apart to double check the valves in it. I of course broke the tab that holds the metal valve shut.. Grrrr..

So, I reinstalled the Autozone "Airtek" fuel pump and noticed not only were the fuel line nipples loose but the pivot pin was backing out since it has no C-clips to secure it in place like the Pierburg pumps. Airtek only "peans" around the nipples. I pulled both the inlet and outlet nipples out, roughed up both surfaces with sandpaper and applied just a touch of JB weld to hold the nipples firmly in place. I then pulled the pivot pin out of the Pierburg pump and installed it in the Airtek pump to secure it. I also used wire under the clamps to double secure both inlet valves so they won't back out as a final precaution.

Anyway, the voice thing.. So, after reinstalling the Airtek pump, it would not restart. I inspected the engine's electrical connections and everything appeared fine. I grabbed a test light and had power to everything and the points were opening/closing. Still no start. Then, as I looked at the carb area, I saw fuel dripping down the side of the carb, near the choke. I popped the top of the carb off and sure enough, the fuel bowl was overfilled and the shut off valve was sticky. I changed it w/a good used, original one that was perfectly smooth and put the carb back together. It still didn't start but I figured it was flooded pretty bad and after cranking it for a bit, it finally caught and puked out a bunch of fuel from the exhaust.. After the big cloud of smoke cleared, the engine smoothed out and idled nicely again.

The moral to my story? I should of listened to my little voice. That stupid bad cut off valve added hours to a simple fuel pump change. I knew better as I'd bought this ground before. Oh well, sometimes we have to burn ourselves multiple times to learn...
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

cegammel
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by cegammel » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:24 pm

Dang...I just put one of those cheap-o cut off valves in...

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sped372
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by sped372 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:11 pm

Your pump experience sounds very familiar.
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

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wcfvw69
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:12 pm

cegammel wrote:Dang...I just put one of those cheap-o cut off valves in...
I try not to use the new ones and in fact, I installed another used, original one that was very smooth and most importantly, non sticky!

As long as the new one was smooth and it closes and opens nicely when you blow on it, you should be fine. One thing though, the new cut off valves are much shorter than the originals. I was educated by Colin about how important fuel bowl level is. Hopefully you measured yours?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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wcfvw69
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:14 pm

sped372 wrote:Your pump experience sounds very familiar.
Actually, I think the pump rebuild was fine. I "assumed" it wasn't getting fuel to the carb and didn't check before ripping the pump back off. It was only when I noticed that little pot metal tab that holds down the stainless steel valve looked odd, that it broke when I pushed on it..

Oh well.. Luckily folks are selling used ones on the The Samba for cheap. I source another one and rebuild it w/the same parts I had in this one.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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sped372
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by sped372 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:20 am

"Way back" in 2010 I dealt with loose fittings and nearly lost my pivot partway through a camping trip. A machinist where I work(ed) was nice enough to add circlip grooves for me once we got home. Posted to this very forum:
sped372 wrote:...On our reluctant journey home we experienced a hiccup. We were about four miles north of Mellen when the bus just flat out died. Clutch in, select neutral, look for a flat spot. Oil level - good, temperature - good, fuel pump - what the?
Image

The pivot shaft for the pump was hanging precariously out of the body, only about 1/16" was still in the casting. I'd already had to fix a loose nipple on this pump and was pretty upset that something like this would happen with only about 8,000 miles on it. The shaft was completely smooth, didn't even have circlip grooves or anything. I'm not sure what was supposed to hold it in.

I pulled the pump and we began looking for possible solutions. We ended up scavenging two snaps from the front curtain and two hose clamps from the air cleaner pre-heat hose. The snaps made nice little 'cups' over each end of the pivot shaft and the clamps snugged things down to prevent them from moving. It looked like something out of Mad Max but we didn't have much choice. As I was fiddling with it the other nipple fell out so I JB-Quick welded it in as well. What the heck.
Image

Well it worked. We drove another 290 miles home and didn't have any other issues. I'm adding an original fuel pump to my to buy list. These aftermarket parts have me depressed. This one was from NAPA and actually looked pretty decent to me, I liked how it closely resembled the original pump and the casting seems nice...
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

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dingo
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by dingo » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:47 am

Another case of JB Weld saving the day...that stuff doesnt get enough credit. Always carry some in the glove box, right next to the GOOP.
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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wcfvw69
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:50 pm

sped372 wrote:"Way back" in 2010 I dealt with loose fittings and nearly lost my pivot partway through a camping trip. A machinist where I work(ed) was nice enough to add circlip grooves for me once we got home. Posted to this very forum:
sped372 wrote:...On our reluctant journey home we experienced a hiccup. We were about four miles north of Mellen when the bus just flat out died. Clutch in, select neutral, look for a flat spot. Oil level - good, temperature - good, fuel pump - what the?
Image

The pivot shaft for the pump was hanging precariously out of the body, only about 1/16" was still in the casting. I'd already had to fix a loose nipple on this pump and was pretty upset that something like this would happen with only about 8,000 miles on it. The shaft was completely smooth, didn't even have circlip grooves or anything. I'm not sure what was supposed to hold it in.

I pulled the pump and we began looking for possible solutions. We ended up scavenging two snaps from the front curtain and two hose clamps from the air cleaner pre-heat hose. The snaps made nice little 'cups' over each end of the pivot shaft and the clamps snugged things down to prevent them from moving. It looked like something out of Mad Max but we didn't have much choice. As I was fiddling with it the other nipple fell out so I JB-Quick welded it in as well. What the heck.
Image

Well it worked. We drove another 290 miles home and didn't have any other issues. I'm adding an original fuel pump to my to buy list. These aftermarket parts have me depressed. This one was from NAPA and actually looked pretty decent to me, I liked how it closely resembled the original pump and the casting seems nice...
Image

Yup, your pump from Napa is an Airtek pump as well. When I went to reinstall my Airtek fuel pump, I noticed the pin was slipping out the back of it. You'd of thought that I'd of learned from this picture that I attached above. This Brazilian POS fuel pump without clips on it's pivot pin left me on the side of the road within a few weeks of buying this Bus when that pivot pin backed out. I stole the pin w/clips off the Pierburg pump and slipped it into the Airtek pump. I also JB welded the inlet/outlet nipples back into the pump body. I am also holding the fuel lines/nipples in with wires under the clamps and the wire being secured to the bolts of the pump body.

I really want and maybe will write a letter to Airtek about their shit parts. I'm not an engineer nor a cost analyst but could it really be that much more expensive to install the pivot pin with clips and glue or screw those nipples in the body?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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SlowLane
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by SlowLane » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:49 pm

Woo, after reading tales like this I am even more grateful for having a perfectly-functioning L-Jet system. Carbs always seemed like such a black art to me: EFI makes so much more sense.

Just don't remind me of the cost, in dollars, effort and time, that it took to achieve said perfect functioning. :geek:
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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wcfvw69
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:17 pm

SlowLane wrote:Woo, after reading tales like this I am even more grateful for having a perfectly-functioning L-Jet system. Carbs always seemed like such a black art to me: EFI makes so much more sense.

Just don't remind me of the cost, in dollars, effort and time, that it took to achieve said perfect functioning. :geek:
Funny, I read posts on people going thru hell trying to reinstall or fix their existing fuel injection systems on their buses. I gasp at all the complexity of those systems compared to a simple carb. I've never owned a fuel injected, air cooled VW but it would be great to do someday, just so I could learn about that system.

Whether fuel injected or carbureted, once we get over the hurdle of dialing everything in correctly, they are generally pretty reliable and low maintenance (until we get a piece of trash in the idle jet).. LOL
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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SlowLane
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by SlowLane » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:03 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
SlowLane wrote:Woo, after reading tales like this I am even more grateful for having a perfectly-functioning L-Jet system. Carbs always seemed like such a black art to me: EFI makes so much more sense.

Just don't remind me of the cost, in dollars, effort and time, that it took to achieve said perfect functioning. :geek:
Funny, I read posts on people going thru hell trying to reinstall or fix their existing fuel injection systems on their buses. I gasp at all the complexity of those systems compared to a simple carb. I've never owned a fuel injected, air cooled VW but it would be great to do someday, just so I could learn about that system.

Whether fuel injected or carbureted, once we get over the hurdle of dialing everything in correctly, they are generally pretty reliable and low maintenance (until we get a piece of trash in the idle jet).. LOL
I'm so leery of the current availabilty of good carbs and fuel pumps that, if I were to take on a carburated project, I would probably convert it to Megasquirt. Heck, my first car was a ' 72 super beetle, which I acquired in 1978, and even then the throttle shaft was sloppy in its bore. That was only after 6 years.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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wcfvw69
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:20 pm

SlowLane wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
SlowLane wrote:Woo, after reading tales like this I am even more grateful for having a perfectly-functioning L-Jet system. Carbs always seemed like such a black art to me: EFI makes so much more sense.

Just don't remind me of the cost, in dollars, effort and time, that it took to achieve said perfect functioning. :geek:
Funny, I read posts on people going thru hell trying to reinstall or fix their existing fuel injection systems on their buses. I gasp at all the complexity of those systems compared to a simple carb. I've never owned a fuel injected, air cooled VW but it would be great to do someday, just so I could learn about that system.

Whether fuel injected or carbureted, once we get over the hurdle of dialing everything in correctly, they are generally pretty reliable and low maintenance (until we get a piece of trash in the idle jet).. LOL
I'm so leery of the current availabilty of good carbs and fuel pumps that, if I were to take on a carburated project, I would probably convert it to Megasquirt. Heck, my first car was a ' 72 super beetle, which I acquired in 1978, and even then the throttle shaft was sloppy in its bore. That was only after 6 years.
I don't like non, original German Solex carbs or non Pierburg fuel pumps. I just bought two used, original German Solex 34-3's at a swap meet for $15 each. One actually had tight, original plastic bushings in it. The other 34-3's throttle shaft bushing were shot. I sent it to Tim and Volksbitz who rebushed it for $80 bucks with nice, brash bushings. I then rebuilt it. After cleaning it a 2nd and 3rd time to include ultra sonic cleaning to clear the idle circuit passages, I got it adjusted right. It works PERFECT with the used, $22 DVDA distributor that I refurbished as well.
The Pierburg square top fuel pumps with the check valve are my favorite pumps. I was lucky to find some NOS rebuild kits that should make them last my life time. Colin likes these pumps as well and is running one on Chloe.

All three of my VW's are running original, rebuilt, original re-bushed German, solex carb, refurbished Bosch distributors, Pierburg fuel pumps, etc. These VW's just run amazing with the original German, VW parts that are all matched together like they were when delivered new.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

kreemoweet
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by kreemoweet » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:10 pm

wcfvw69 wrote: The Pierburg square top fuel pumps with the check valve are my favorite pumps.
Likewise, ditto me too also. If anyone has one of those old pumps, and only needs a new diaphragm to get it working again, I've found that the
diaphragm from one of those Airtex pumps discussed previously is just the right size (unlike the ones in the bogus current rebuild kits), and those Airtex pumps can be had for $30. or less. Compare the very-hard-to-find NOS rebuild kits at $60. or more each, or a rebuild from Vintage Werks, quite expensive.

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wcfvw69
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Re: Do you ever ignore that little voice in your head?

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:14 pm

kreemoweet wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote: The Pierburg square top fuel pumps with the check valve are my favorite pumps.
Likewise, ditto me too also. If anyone has one of those old pumps, and only needs a new diaphragm to get it working again, I've found that the
diaphragm from one of those Airtex pumps discussed previously is just the right size (unlike the ones in the bogus current rebuild kits), and those Airtex pumps can be had for $30. or less. Compare the very-hard-to-find NOS rebuild kits at $60. or more each, or a rebuild from Vintage Werks, quite expensive.
I bet you're also swapping over the diaphragm spring from the Pierburg pump and putting it on the Airtek diaphragm to achieve the correct pressure as well.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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