Bus 1 has issues...

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71whitewesty
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Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:22 pm

Well I might as we'll get this started. I have a visit with Colin coming up here soon and with three 71 busses, there's plenty of things to do. I label my busses, Bus 1 and Bus 2 (bus 3 is the ugly step child that never gets talked about).
Bus 1 I've had the longest and put the most miles on but Bus 2 has been the most dependable for the last two years.
Well today after driving about 80 miles I pulled over and went windsurfing and when I got back I went to start it and there was a loud knocking/rapping noise I'd say in time with one of the cylinders.
It went away after running for about 20 seconds. It was loud and then gradually got quieter until it disappeared.
I then drove about 25 miles home and had no issues. Seemed to run fine. Got home, let it cool down for an hour and then restarted and the loud banging is back. It goes away after 20 or so seconds. It doesn't sound good at all, it's loud. I won't drive it until I figure it out. I have a feeling it has to do with the heads. They broke a valve once and dropped a seat once, both times I had fixed. I'm wondering if the seat is messed up or a rod bearing maybe.
In the meantime I'll use Bus 2 again. But I wanted to take Bus 1 on our annual road trip to jasper and banff in a month....
I'm tempted to try and start over with a new long block and heads, I'm losing faith in this one. It only has about 9k miles on it.
Odd that it makes the noise when it cools off but then seems to go away.
Stock 1600 dp. Dvda, 34 pict 3 etc.
any initial thoughts? I'll find out soon enough but leaning towards the heads.

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drober23
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by drober23 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:01 am

Is it for sure a hard metallic rapping? Last time I had funny startup noises that went away in a bit it was because I had a spark plug not tight enough. I didn't sort it out fast enough, and eventually it tore the threads of that cylinder. But it would be a loud noise for 20 seconds or so, then go away.

I suppose you could lay down by one cylinder head while someone starts the engine. Maybe you can pinpoint which cylinder it is this way. Could be any number of things in the valve train rattling around until they get straightened out.
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe
(plus more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:12 am

Yesterday I removed the engine and drained the oil. Oil is very metallic. I'm leaning towards a bad bearing at this point. I think it's time I order a new long block and save this one for a winter project.
Not a spark plug but it sounded like one to me at first too. Not in the generator or fan either. Valves adjustment and oil were changed 400 miles ago. Valve adjustment is still fine so thinking rod bearing.

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asiab3
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by asiab3 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:53 pm

Sean, have you considered a loose cylinder head or cylinder head studs? The sound I heard went away as the engine warmed up, which is possible with a leak between the cylinder head and cylinder barrel itself. However, that doesn't explain the large amount of metal in the oil. Seriously, when my lifter cracked and wiped the camshaft, my oil didn't look that bad after 600 miles of driving…

IF you decide to take the heads off for a look-see, be methodical and forensic in your sleuthing. Don't just rip parts off like I did with my first teardown… :D

Did you try firing it up cold with one spark plug wire at a time disconnected to see if the noise was related to combustion in any one cylinder?
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:20 pm

I didn't pull the plugs. The sound is a real banging sound. Pretty sure it's not a cylinder leaking, sound is just too "hard".
Lots of metal flake in the oil. I'll take it apart carefully for sure when I do. About ready to order a new long block tomorrow.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:39 am

71whitewesty wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:20 pm
I didn't pull the plugs. The sound is a real banging sound. Pretty sure it's not a cylinder leaking, sound is just too "hard".
Lots of metal flake in the oil. I'll take it apart carefully for sure when I do. About ready to order a new long block tomorrow.
Ouch! What engine is this with only 9 thousand miles on it?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:34 am

This is the one that was rebuilt by auto sport international...the week before they closed shop after 40 or so years. The valve seat fell out after 3k. Sent the heads to Adrian for rebuild. Heads seem fine now but I have not taken them off yet either.
This engine I got from my friend when he spun a main bearing, then I had Auto sport rebuilt this case and I got 15k out of it then broke a valve. Sent it back to get rebuilt again and now appears to have a bearing issue.
Bus 1 has been on the maintenance merry go round for over two years now with different engine related issues. So thinking to start with a fresh case etc and order up another long block. My Adrian motor in bus 2 has been trouble free now for two years and 20+k miles. So I might just get another from him.

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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:06 am

Well just for the record and my desire to get Bus 1 up and running again, I ordered a new long block from Headflow Masters. I know there were several problem with some of his builds and I even had an issue mine but he made it right and that engine has been running flawlessly for 2 years now. So being the loyal type I ordered another and hope to get Bus 1 as reliable as Bus 2 has been. Maybe with a little luck I'll get the new long block and put it together and get it in Bus 1 in time for our annual family trip starting Aug 8. If not, we'all take Bus 2.

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sgkent
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by sgkent » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:01 pm

I've had low mile heads with snug guides make a noise like that from a sticking valve (carbon / varnish) building up on it in cold weather. Use a long screwdriver to listen to each valve cover, and the area around the oil pump to see where the sound is loudest next time it happens. The fix if it is a valve is to either use stronger valve springs, or spray the guide with Berryman's to clear out the carbon and varnish, then oil it well and turn the engine over a few time by hand while oiling the guide.

if the heads were torqued right you wouldn't think they would come loose in 9,000 miles but anything is possible. Certainly as Colin described, warming the engine would make the noise quiet down.

A little silver bronze sheen in the oil is not always a bad thing. Grit you can feel is not a good thing. Drain the oil thru a paint filter next time and see what you catch.
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

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71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:34 pm

Thanks Sgkent, I always appreciate the good advice from you. I thought it might be a valve too and I'm not 100% certain what it is yet but the amount of fine metal flake in the oil after 400 miles made me think a bearing. It's weird that the noise does go away after about the time oil would start getting to it.
I'll take it apart and figure out what it was for sure this fall most likely.

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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:38 pm

Ps, these heads were actually over torqued because I used the 10mm stud torque and I have the 8mm studs on there. I didn't realize that until I had it back in the bus. The heads have about 4 or 5k on them and we're rebuilt at headflow masters after I lost a valve seat on them.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:42 am

71whitewesty wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:38 pm
Ps, these heads were actually over torqued because I used the 10mm stud torque and I have the 8mm studs on there. I didn't realize that until I had it back in the bus. The heads have about 4 or 5k on them and we're rebuilt at headflow masters after I lost a valve seat on them.
Well, while you are in the thick of it, can you ask about a pair of single port heads for little ol' Chloe? Tell the potential purveyor that these heads would be going pretty much straight to highway hell, so no junk, no casual reassurances.
Colin :compress:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:55 am

Here's a quick update.
First off the noise was from a tin screw that I dropped in the intake the week before when I was replacing the gaskets. :scratch: :cyclopsani:
That engine is just fine now. But I had already ordered a new long block from HFM sooo, now I have a perfectly good back up engine for now.
The HFM long block arrived about 2 weeks ago and I've been slowly collecting parts and putting it together. Will be done today with the assembly and hope to get it in Bus 1 this week for the break in. I really need to learn how to post pictures on here with out photo bucket. Progress has been a little slow because we have been in a level 2 evacuation notice for a couple weeks due to big fire in the gorge creeping our way. It's done now though. Also just the time to collect more parts. I want to have another complete or almost complete plug and play engine sitting around here. Maybe I'll even put it in Bus 3.
Anyway all is going well so far. I'll update this as make more progress on it.

Bus 2 now has about 30k flawless miles on its HFM longblock. Doesn't leak, runs perfect and it's just been working its tail off for me and driving my family of 4 around fully loaded with camping gear and toys. Just like a good bus should. :thumbleft:

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:32 am

71whitewesty wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:55 am
Here's a quick update.

Bus 2 now has about 30k flawless miles on its HFM longblock. :thumbleft:

Life is grand when everything is flawless . . .
Colin
Well, while you are in the thick of it, can you ask about a pair of single port heads for little ol' Chloe?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by asiab3 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:04 pm

Good to hear Sean. Even better that your family and home are safe from the fires.

Do you have a parts list of stuff you're looking for? I have a small collection of doubles and tripes here of stuff I probably don't need.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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