Starting Issues

[jonyem]

I had my bus in for some repairs with a local mechanic (Aircooled experienced, but that's all I'm going to say about that.) Anyway, after I got it back I had some issues with the lights (brake lights still don't work, but managed to fix the turn signals and hazards by just cleaning the terminals or replacing bulbs.) Anyway, got those working and decided that I needed to look into why the brake lights aren't working, and narrowed it down to the possibility that the brake light switches need to be replaced. Discouraged, and broke I just let it sit in the yard for a few days. Up to this point it started up just fine.

After a few days of sitting I tried to start it up, it started and ran really rough, had to keep giving it gas to keep from dying. Even then it still died on me. Tried to start it up again and it cranks and cranks but won't fire. And that's where I am at this point.

Thoughts?

[sped372]

Carb, Carbs, or FI?

[jonyem]

Carb, Carbs, or FI?

Dual Carbs. Solex H40/44EIS

Edit: I should also point out that the battery seems fine, I even swapped in one from my Civic that is good.

[sped372]

I'm not too familiar with the Type IV's - do the dual carbies have electromagnetic cutoff solenoids like the single-carb engines?

[jonyem]

So, after reading a few dozen threads on the Samba I decided to go try a couple things.
First, unhooked the fuel line to the right carb and checked the fuel pump, seems to pump just fine.
Then, for the heck of it I changed my spark plugs. My mechanic put new ones in when he fixed the head and replaced the fuel tank. I changed from Bosch WR8CC+ (Russia?) to NGK BP6ET. Poured a little gas in each carb and tried to fire it up. With a little hesitation it did fire up, but died before I could rev the engine. I've tried that a couple times now, with a little rest in between, and it does the same thing. I have a feeling it's a fuel supply issue, and maybe not electrical.

[Amskeptic]

So, after reading a few dozen threads on the Samba I decided to go try a couple things.
First, unhooked the fuel line to the right carb and checked the fuel pump, seems to pump just fine.
Then, for the heck of it I changed my spark plugs. My mechanic put new ones in when he fixed the head and replaced the fuel tank. I changed from Bosch WR8CC+ (Russia?) to NGK BP6ET. Poured a little gas in each carb and tried to fire it up. With a little hesitation it did fire up, but died before I could rev the engine. I've tried that a couple times now, with a little rest in between, and it does the same thing. I have a feeling it's a fuel supply issue, and maybe not electrical.

Do you have cut-off solenoids? If so, ignition on-pull wires and listen for clicks.
If no, rap the fuel inlets to help make sure the needle valves are not stuck closed. Prime the carbs CAREFULLY again, and restart.
ColinInSpokane

[jonyem]

So, after reading a few dozen threads on the Samba I decided to go try a couple things.
First, unhooked the fuel line to the right carb and checked the fuel pump, seems to pump just fine.
Then, for the heck of it I changed my spark plugs. My mechanic put new ones in when he fixed the head and replaced the fuel tank. I changed from Bosch WR8CC+ (Russia?) to NGK BP6ET. Poured a little gas in each carb and tried to fire it up. With a little hesitation it did fire up, but died before I could rev the engine. I've tried that a couple times now, with a little rest in between, and it does the same thing. I have a feeling it's a fuel supply issue, and maybe not electrical.

Do you have cut-off solenoids? If so, ignition on-pull wires and listen for clicks.
If no, rap the fuel inlets to help make sure the needle valves are not stuck closed. Prime the carbs CAREFULLY again, and restart.
ColinInSpokane

I do not have the cut-off solenoids.
I will try that in the morning and report back.

[jonyem]

That didn't work. Unless I did it wrong (which is entirely possible).
Just like yesterday I took the hose off the right carb and drained a little gas into a jar, the pump pumped just fine. Gave the inlet a rap and did the same on the left carb. The starter just spins and spins and won't engage.
Now what should I try?

[sped372]

The starter just spins and spins and won't engage.

This sounds like the engine isn't turning over, is that what you meant to say? Is the starter spinning but the engine itself is not rotating? Or, is the engine turning over with the starter but failing to start?

[jonyem]

The starter just spins and spins and won't engage.

This sounds like the engine isn't turning over, is that what you meant to say? Is the starter spinning but the engine itself is not rotating? Or, is the engine turning over with the starter but failing to start?

The best I could describe is the engine turning over with the starter but failing to start.

[sped372]

Any coughs or sputtering, or nothing at all?

[jonyem]

Any coughs or sputtering, or nothing at all?

Nothing at all.
As I said yesterday I got it to start up for a second, but it's been nothing otherwise.

[sped372]

If you're at nothing at all you'll have to back way up and check all the basics first. Are you getting a good spark from the ignition coil, is it making it to every sparkplug, is the timing close enough to get it started? You should be able to get it to at least sputter by priming the fuel manually like you've described.

[jonyem]

How do I determine whether I'm getting good spark from the coil and is making it to the plugs?
The timing was set before this occurred, but I won't rule that out.

[sped372]

Pull the center wire from the distributor and hold it so the metal core is about 1/4" from something grounded on the bus (the engine case will work). Either prop it there or use rubber handled pliers with gloves or something similar so you don't get shocked. Make sure there's nothing flammable right there, either. Crank the engine and observe the spark. You want a nice hot blue-white spark. A yellow one is weak.

If you have a good spark there, put that wire back on the center of the distributor and go around to each sparkplug, one at a time. You can simply pull the wire from the plug and repeat the same test. Look for a spark that will jump to ground while you crank the engine. You can remove each sparkplug also and reconnect the wire to it, hold the base of the plug (threads) to ground and watch for the spark to jump across the terminals of the plug while you crank. At least you know you have spark at each plug, then. You can do a quick-check by putting an inductive pickup for a timing light over each wire, too.