µSquirt ( microSquirt ) powered Vanagon ramblings

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luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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µSquirt ( microSquirt ) powered Vanagon ramblings

Post by luftvagon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:31 am

Hello,

I am proud to say I am an owner of 81 Vanagon Westfalia Camper, and even though it had its share of simple issues, I still love it for the simple thing that it is. The van had 97k miles when I bought it, and it is well into 100k at the moment.

In the past month I have been contemplating a rebuild. When it's all said and done, it would cost anywhere from $2500 (rebuilding existing components through local machine shop) to $5000 (using popular internet shops, and recommended machinists).

The reason for rebuild is purely an insurance to not get stranded somewhere BFE, especially not knowing the engine from new, and what maintenance has been done.

I made a short video of the engine, and the potential knock thats present at lower RPM, that goes away with higher RPM. Rod knock potentially.

http://www.youtube.com/v/7iJRNjMn3RA?version=3
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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RSorak 71Westy
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:16 am

I didnt here any knocking sounds in that video....Based on this I'd say your ok for some more miles. Knocks do not develop rapidly if the oil is kept full.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

luftvagon
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by luftvagon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:08 pm

You can hear a sharp knock or a thump on initial acceleration, and as RPM increase, the noise goes away,
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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RSorak 71Westy
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:12 pm

Oh I did hear that now that you mention it and yes this is the beginnings of a rod knock. My last post is wrongl. It's time.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

luftvagon
Old School!
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by luftvagon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:44 pm

My dilemma is that I can buy an 85 wasserleaker Westfalia in very good shape, 75k miles for $4500, and since I don't want to skimp on rebuilding it right it would cost me $4500-5000... not much sentimental value in the air vanagon, but i like the fact its aircooled and simple to maintain, and fix if it breaks.. and if i am to go with the wasserleaker, i'd be putting in 1.8T.. doh
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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hambone
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by hambone » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:51 pm

This place gets decent reviews on Samba, though I can't vouch for them:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=983365
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

luftvagon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by luftvagon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:02 pm

I've seen that... My only concern is hydraulic versus mechanical lifters.. I am also wanting 42mm x 36mm (intake x exhaust) valve train. -_-
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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hambone
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Location: Portland, Ore.
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by hambone » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:36 pm

I'm sure they would work with you. Aren't solid lifters cheaper anyway?
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

luftvagon
Old School!
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by luftvagon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:24 pm

After reading countless "one who shall remain nameless" posts, I was convinced that solid lifers was the way to go. Maybe I don't need 42x36, and mild cam..
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Sylvester
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by Sylvester » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:16 pm

hambone wrote:This place gets decent reviews on Samba, though I can't vouch for them:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=983365
Holy Guadalcanal Batman! They have great prices for a 1600! I think I may just get one! I need a backup and they look good.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue, I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace. Where never lark, or even eagle flew. And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod, The high untrespassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

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airkooledchris
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by airkooledchris » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:57 pm

Buy the waterboxer, its the better deal given your choices.

Better motor upgrade options on it down the road to.

Nothing wrong with hydraulic lifters btw :-)
1979 California Transporter

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Amskeptic
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:37 pm

luftvagon wrote:After reading countless "one who shall remain nameless" posts, I was convinced that solid lifers was the way to go. Maybe I don't need 42x36, and mild cam..
Hello, I listened to your video and we are missing one critical component to your diagnostic question. In order for us to rule out lower end/connecting rods, we need to hear the engine at extended higher rpms, like between 3,000 -3,200 rpm for several seconds, followed by a sharp release of the throttle lever.

From what I could hear of your engine, you may have the famous and benign sloppy piston slap that VW reallowed when they discovered that the last piston size (94MM) was a real seize-happy piston. They upped the minimum required clearance as a result.

Please let us know if that sharp knock during idle-off rev -up diminishes when the engine is hot.
That would help us determine if this is nothing to be concerned about.

Rebuilding your very own engine is definitely the most spirit-enriching option you have. Why are we on this Earth if not to wade in over our heads and emerge victorious and wiser for all that we did not know ... and had to learn under fire?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

luftvagon
Old School!
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by luftvagon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:40 am

Colin, you are legend of the air cooled world. I've read your posts before and always admired your drawings. I am going to try this today and make another video. It will be awesome if I don't have to rebuild the bottom end, but then again, when does the bottom end give up, and it may be a good thing to rebuild it before it gives.
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI with wasted spark ignition)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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ruckman101
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by ruckman101 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:10 pm

The bottom end on my 1600 dp went gracefully. Bearing debris swirling in the oil to the point I knew it was done and couldn't deny it. And there was a sense of it just working harder to keep going and do the same work. No seizure. Was still running, but gasping somehow.


neal
The slipper has no teeth.

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airkooledchris
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Re: Contemplating [re]build

Post by airkooledchris » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:59 pm

if you end up going for it and need any parts, let me know. I have the case, cam, crank, lifters and pushrods from an 81 aircooled Vanagon that I pulled after 30k miles on a rebuild (the heads were crappy AVP resurfaced bits). I know that matching up the cam to the correct lifters and pushrods is a good (vital?) step and marked everything properly when they were pulled. It's a completely stock grind cam and hydraulic lifters.

as im sure you have seen elsewhere the heads are the most vital part of doing your rebuild right. go straight to Adrian at headflowmasters or Len Hoffman at http://www.hamincgroup.com/type4.php

in the end, if you do have to rebuild - really think about all of your options. rebuilding it yourself would be an awesome awesome project, if you have the time, money and patience to do so. but if you don't, it would end up being cheaper to pick up that running watercooled Vanagon than it would cost to *properly* rebuild your own engine and have it installed/etc.

personally I love the aircooled vanagon, I think it's one of the last great value's in older VW campers. I say buy the Vanagon and then park your aircooled one for a nice long slow proper rebuild of it's engine. take a year to sort the right parts, then slowly and carefully assemble it without worrying about a completion date.
1979 California Transporter

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