Beetle Water Leak and a Call Out for Help

Beetle, Karmann Ghia, Thing.

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hambone
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Beetle Water Leak and a Call Out for Help

Post by hambone » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:13 pm

"I'll just poke in there for a minute and try to find that damn water leak".
Yes.
A messy rusty day. Water is coming in from somewhere. No, it's not the top end, a hose proves. Somewhere underneath. The belly pan gasket is suspect, cracked and missing bits of outer chunks. I ain't changin that damn thing. Goops will have to do, in the summertime. Also found a sizeable hole under the pass front fender; Now it's sealed with 1/2 a tube of silicone, should do until I can patch it real-good-like in the summertime, mebbe some sheet metal rivited in, good enuff. I can see no other source of leaks though. Hood seal is good (even the rubber retaining tits) antenna seems tight. The hood also wasn't fully locked, although latched; perhaps that was part of it too. It's locked down now. Well I ripped out the old tarboard sound deadener crap, it was shot and retaining water (just like my first wife ho ho ho). The floor pans are solid. Could a wet floor on a daily driver Beetle, in Oregon, in winter, just be a symptom of climate?

Also spent a frustrating but fruitful time freeing a stuck vent cable. Hours of dribbling Triflow down the tube... Then, it has a funny (no so) bend that caused it to *POP* off when the knob was cranked. Tried as I might I couldn't get it to bend back, so I glued it to the plastic pin. Seems to work, fresh air out the vents for the first time in years.
Also discovered that the defroster tube was DISCONNECTED at the top...but alas, even after reconnecting I still don't get much defrost air. All it does is cause the windshield to fog up, much like a "car" with a bad heater core. But the fresh air vent clears the windshield nicely.
Man I'd love a brand new Beetle that hasn't suffered the indignity of years, I'll bet they were perty tight when new, none of this leaky wobbly front end stuff. Well you can't turn back time. But you CAN drink paint.

Any thoughts?
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Gypsie
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Post by Gypsie » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:04 pm

Don't drink the paint.....



Fry it up and serve with ranch :blackeye:
So it all started when I wanted to get better gas mileage....

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Bookwus
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Post by Bookwus » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:46 pm

Hiya Bob,

The ol' hose test can be a bit misleading at times. I went through the exact same symptoms you are now experiencing. I looked for the source of that leak (literally) for years. I could never make it leak by spraying water anywhere. I wound up tearing out the floor insulation pad and painting the inside of the pan with POR-15 because I was concerned that the rust worm was at work.

I finally just replaced the driver side door seal cause it was the only thing I had not tried. Bingo! No more leak.

And catch this.............. a few months after I found and fixed that leak I noticed water in the passenger side. This time I was able to trace the leak. The leak started at the weep holes under the window seal in the passenger bottom corner. The water then dripped onto the hinge pivot for the hood. Then it dripped down onto the hood pull mechanism. Made its way through the hood pull and dripped down the inside cowl and onto the pan. Unreal!
I have cancer.

It does not have me.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Beetle Annoyances

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:15 pm

hambone wrote:Water is coming in from somewhere. Any thoughts?
Front of the tunnel where the shift rod access plate is? (or is that Type 3 only?

Rusted out heater channels? Steering tube? Rear brake line grommet at tunnel? Track it down. It is important.

I remember these cars well when you could rely on them being as tight as a drum and as dry as a desert in in any weather.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:26 am

Carpet is dry around the doors and on the front bulkhead, but wet on the floors. Heater channels are solid.
I will take the POR15 trip this summer, and also go over the grommets etc. with a fine toothed comb. Maybe seam-seal the heck out of everything for good measure. Man it sure likes to RAIN here....
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Bookwus
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Post by Bookwus » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:39 pm

Hiya Bob,
hambone wrote:........... Man it sure likes to RAIN here....
You're just finding this out now?
I have cancer.

It does not have me.

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daninghram
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Post by daninghram » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:56 pm

pull the carpet out for the winter. It will save the floor.
You kids get off my lawn

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:40 am

Wow, after our recent week of total downpours, there is a LOT of water on the floors. A few cups at least.
It's wet only down low. The carpet surrounding the heater channels and up near the footwells is dry. There is a grommet around the rear brake line thru the body, haven't checked the front yet.
I'm supspecting the body pan gasket. That is a major job....
There is also some wetness coming from the front driver side heater vent on the floor. I don't think it's the door seals, because the area surrounding the doors is dry on both sides.

Maybe someone with some experience in these matters can come have a look see before I drive the damn car into the Columbia.

I'm gonna have Halsey take a look next week, maybe they can give me some insight.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:58 pm

I'm gonna take one more shot at this tonight before I take it to the shop.
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http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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zabo
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Post by zabo » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:34 pm

60 beetle
78 bus

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:50 pm

Thanks youse!
I was lookin at that earlier. Not sure how much help it will be...
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http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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56ovalbug
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Post by 56ovalbug » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:50 pm

Make sure all the rubber grommets under the chrome trim are there and in good shape. Make sure the drain holes at the bottom of the doors are clear.
Joey

'56 Beetle|'65 Beetle|'74 Bus|'79 Panel|’60 Kombi

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:34 am

Yesterday I spent a day with the Beetle. Lots of water, way too much. Here's what I discovered after a very thurough day:

1. Main brake line from master cylinder thru front bulkhead didn't have a grommet, only a small piece of blue brake hose. Yeah I screwed up when I replaced the master cylinder. Now I know better.

2. Sizeable (5"x5") hole under front passenger fender. Unable to remove lower fender bolt, it just spins. I patched it best I could until the dry season. (man that should have been dealt with when the car was getting repaired...........) You should see my silicone and bike inner tube repair.

3. A small hole in the driver's side heater channel. Patched with JB Weld.

4. Windshield seal does not seal properly. On the driver's side lower corner, the seal is not pushed out far enough on the outside of the car, causing water to run down the hole on the metal lip into the trunk and down the pillar. It looks like the (Chinese) windshield is about 1/4" undersized. You can actually wiggle the seal around in this area. I sealed it with silicone short term, but what to do long term? Can you add material to the windshield? It's a German seal.

5. Passenger door (newly replaced prior to repaint) is sagging considerably, causing a dime sized gap on the upper door corner when closed. I don't think any water is getting in this way however.
Bad door pin? This is beyond my expertise, I may have to have a body shop help fix the fix.

The rear grommets for the brake line and wiring are intact. Floor pans are solid. I tightened the body mounting bolts but they only moved a smidge. The pan gasket doesn't really look that bad. Antenna does not appear to be leaking. Vent box under the hood doens't seem to be leaking.

So I dried it out the best I could. I sure hope this helps get thru the winter.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:09 pm

hambone wrote: 1. Main brake line from master cylinder thru front bulkhead didn't have a grommet,
4. Windshield seal does not seal properly.
5. Passenger door (newly replaced prior to repaint) is sagging considerably, causing a dime sized gap on the upper door corner when closed.
1) Aha tole you, shutup that's rude, sorry

4) Remove windshield and surround from the glass. Place the glass up in the opening to see if the cut is mostly correct all the way around the perimeter. If it is not, replace the windshield with a new one from a different supplier and bitch like mad at your original supplier. If the glass radii matches the opening, put a run of speaker cord (lamp cord if you have a big gap) around the edge of the glass:
Image

Cut the length of the cord accurately with matching 45* angle cut (like a picture frame) on both ends and glue the edges together. It will reside in the groove of the rubber and allow the body/glass groove to fill the opening.
Image

Nobody can tell that you have expanded the perimeter of the surround rubber. My Squareback has the chrome surround and it all went together nicely and does not leak any more:
Image

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:12 pm

Thanks Colin that's EXACTLY what I was lookin for. Looks like a summertime project.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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