How can you 'like' War?

[DjEep]

If they are old enough to read it, they are old enough to absorb a simple explanation "that sticker is using a swear word to tell others that they hate war. I hate how war hurts people too. Remember when I told you to quit pissing off the cat and I got in trouble with your mom for using the wrong words? Shit! Now I'm going to get in trouble again. Aw fuck, I can't say shit."
Colin

That was the thought that first crossed my mind when i read LiveonJG's reply. I think that kids are smarter than we usually want to believe they are. Kids are just looking for answers to the questions they ask. Like Live said, "innocence and purity," the true form of which lies in the fact that they have no ulterior motives, just genuine interest and curiosity in the world that is unfolding before them. This is just my opinion, I don't expect to change any minds, or mean it as parenting advice.

[lovemybus]

Hum... Fuck War... in text?

Do you think that is any more offensive then seeing slain bodies, blody clothes, or bombs hitting building on the TV.

Im not sure if the word Fuck could be used more politically correct than as it is in the "Fuck War" Sticker.

I have a young child but basically at any age would consider talking to her about a sticker like that.

War sucks. No matter how it goes. It's too bad humans have it in them.

[Amskeptic]

War sucks. No matter how it goes. It's too bad humans have it in them.

It got blasted out of me by a bright ten year-old.
While working at a summer camp 26 years ago, I was tormented by his brash defiance to the point of grabbing his arm. He coldly looked at me and said, "violence is the last resort of a fool." That stuck.
Colin

[steve74baywin]

Shock and Awe man, shock and Awe, let's totally bomb a city to show how tough we are... What's a few 1000 innocent woman. men and children.. I mean,,, there was a chance that perhaps one day that very bad man Saddam might have hurt us, so, to show how hurting the innocent is wrong,,, let's do a Shock and Awe,,,..
and,,,even thouh the terrorist were from other countries,,they could have come from Iraq no?...
He he,,,and to think, many, many americans who didn't stand to gain millions like the Bush's, Cheney's, Carlise group, Hallibourton,,etc also supported this due to the major propaganda campaign lunched after 9/11.

[DjEep]

War sucks. No matter how it goes. It's too bad humans have it in them.

It got blasted out of me by a bright ten year-old.
While working at a summer camp 26 years ago, I was tormented by his brash defiance to the point of grabbing his arm. He coldly looked at me and said, "violence is the last resort of a fool." That stuck.
Colin

=D> =D> =D>

[LiveonJG]

Hum... Fuck War... in text?

Do you think that is any more offensive then seeing slain bodies, blody clothes, or bombs hitting building on the TV.

Im not sure if the word Fuck could be used more politically correct than as it is in the "Fuck War" Sticker.

I have a young child but basically at any age would consider talking to her about a sticker like that.

War sucks. No matter how it goes. It's too bad humans have it in them.

Excellent point. Problem is we're not seeing those bloody broken bodies on TV. If we were, public opinion would have turned against the war alot sooner. As for the various comments regarding having to explain the phrase FUCK WAR to a child obviously it would need to be adressed, that's what parenting is all about, teaching. The larger point here is found in Hillary Clinton's infamous statement: "It takes a village to raise a child." She was right no matter what the righties said. Like it or not, we're all in this together and our individual actions cause a ripple effect through society. Respect for opposite points of view seems to be a thing of the past. Right now it's all about who can yell the loudest.

DJ, you said:

And this woman's was the first negative reaction after a month of daily honks+peacesigns.

Think about it. How many of those honks and peacesigns came from people who were pro war but after reading your sign suddenly came to the realization that war is wrong? None, I'd guess. I don't have an issue with your message, it's your delivery. FUCK WAR is an incindiary statement. Your use of it by your own admission was to incite a reaction.

It is meant to offend.
the point is to spark the thought: which word is more offensive, Fuck or War.

Now if I were pro war and I saw someone waving a FUCK WAR sign, I'd immediately draw some conclusions, and then dig my heels in ready for a fight. Just like that woman did to you. If it were me, I'd say something to the effect of "STOP WAR" or "END WAR". You're not going to change someone's mind by pissing them off and putting them on the defensive. Opening a dialogue is a far more effective way of going about it. FUCK WAR is yelling and it doesn't really accomplish much more than letting off steam. It really is just preaching to the choir.
-John

[Amskeptic]

You're not going to change someone's mind by pissing them off and putting them on the defensive.

First time I saw "Visualize Whirled Peas" I didn't know what to think.
Are they making fun of world peace?
But it was funny. So I decided it was actually supporting world peace.
Good funny does that.
Colin

[LiveonJG]

First time I saw "Visualize Whirled Peas" I didn't know what to think.
Are they making fun of world peace?
But it was funny. So I decided it was actually supporting world peace.
Good funny does that.
Colin

I always thought that was an ad for some new high protein sports drink!

[lovemybus]

First time I saw "Visualize Whirled Peas" I didn't know what to think.
Are they making fun of world peace?
But it was funny. So I decided it was actually supporting world peace.
Good funny does that.
Colin

I always thought that was an ad for some new high protein sports drink!

LOL

[DjEep]

I don't expect to change any minds. Just rattle them a bit. It is near impossible to change the world views of a grown human, period, let alone with a sign or bumper sticker. But it sure has worked to spark conversation on the matter, and maybe it will spark some free thought in the minds of the children that have to ask why someone would use "Fuck" like that. As pointed out before, kids are quite perceptive, logical and open and have a low tolerance for BS and half answers (expressed in the constant "why?"ing and discontent with the answers "just because" or "'cause I said so") I think a child would "get" it more than an adult would. They would be more likely than an adult to pose the question i am trying to get people too ask, "what makes that word more offensive than violent death?" (maybe not in those exact words) and maybe that will jilt the adults into thinking more deeply about it.

Live, you said "if I were Pro-War"...once again, if someone were "pro-war" i wouldn't want anything to do with them, as being "pro-WAR" is about as disgusting, foul, sad, pathetic as one can get. (not you Live, the hypothetical "pro-war" people) And they would have no moral high ground to stand on to criticize my methods. Come on, i have a sign in my window to "push" my views, they KILL people to push theirs!!!

And thanks for giving me someone to debate with Live. As I said, I can't change minds that are to far gone to at least agree with the basic message. But i can spark reasoned debate on how far one should go in promoting peace in this violent world we live in.

And about the "stop war" or "end war" signs, go back and read my quotes from jerry rubin about his friend from berkeley. If the sign said that we wouldn't be having this dialogue now... in NorCal (as they probably are in OR) "Stop/End/No War" signs/stickers are a dime a gross and don't elicit much of a reaction at all.

[Elwood]

How about "Why War ????"

[dingo]

How about "Why War ????"

i kinda like that one. It would probably evoke more interesting responses and get people to actually question their motivations rather than react defensively (unless thats your intent)

[LiveonJG]

if someone were "pro-war" i wouldn't want anything to do with them, as being "pro-WAR" is about as disgusting, foul, sad, pathetic as one can get.

Dj, it's been a spirited debate. Thanks for expressing your views so eloquently. I chose the above quote because I think you're imposing a limitation on yourself that you might want to rethink. Like I said waaaay back in my first post to this thread, I believe that no one is truely "Pro-war" with the exceptions being the individuals and corporations that direcly profit from the waging of war. Supporters of our government's occupation of Iraq believe what they are told. If we don't fight them there, we'll have to fight them here...WMDs...etc, fear is a strong motivator. You have to admit, between the White House, Fox News, and 90% of all AM radio opinion shows, there's a pretty big propaganda machine out there. Sadly, this is where many people get their information. Slowly opinions are changing, the truth can only be suppressed for so long. All I'm saying is try not to write someone off based on your preconcieved notion of who they are. Granted, it's not easy and some times damn near impossible but try to engage them in conversation. It can be alot more rewarding than simply trying to piss them off. Maybe we can continue this debate in person, over some good brew, under a blazing sun, at 3AM in the arctic.
-John

[dingo]

over some good brew, under a blazing sun, at 3AM in the arctic.

now that there is something to look forward to !

[DjEep]

if someone were "pro-war" i wouldn't want anything to do with them, as being "pro-WAR" is about as disgusting, foul, sad, pathetic as one can get.

I stand by my view that being Pro War in any form is horrible. You might as well be killing children yourself. This goes for everyone, no matter what "side" you are on. In grade school, during the first gulf war, a Palestinian kid in my class got suspended for wearing a shirt that said "Fighting for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity." Perfect way to put it. I still think this kid was way smarter than the officials who sent him home.

Like I said waaaay back in my first post to this thread, I believe that no one is truely "Pro-war" with the exceptions being the individuals and corporations that direcly profit from the waging of war. Supporters of our government's occupation of Iraq believe what they are told.

Once again, I am against all war, not just in Iraq (or "Iran" as the woman said) I just happen to live in amerika so Iraq is the war people think of when they see it. I am saying Fuck War to everyone in this world. Just Be HAPPY!

Maybe we can continue this debate in person, over some good brew, under a blazing sun, at 3AM in the arctic.
-John

See you there! I'll bring some good Belgian Ale to toast the midnight sun. I'm sure we'll have more to agree on than stuff to debate once we get of the semantics of this topic.



By the way, this whole thing is more of a social experiment than a protest