How can you 'like' War?

[DjEep]

My girlfriend put a sign in the back window of the bus that says

FUCK WAR
Try Happy!

Driving in Truckee, by Lake Tahoe, last weekend a woman pulls up next to us at a light and says,

"Here's what you do... You take your 'happy' ass to Iran, and 'Try Happy' there!"

I assume that she read the anti-Bush bumper stickers below it and thought it was just another anti-Bush thing. But the sign doesn't specifiy what war it is referring to. The sign says "Fuck War" in general no matter who it is between. It's not just telling Bush to Fuck War, it's telling Iran, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Russia, Congo, Liberia, Coke, Pepsi, everyone to Fuck War. How can you be against that?

That, and I didn't think "we" were at war with Iran.... Or that it would be at all prudent to start one there.....

[baygeek]

I dig their music... had some on a Ktel record once...

[DjEep]

Shoud have known that one was coming....

[LiveonJG]

Dude,
I don't think it's a question of if anybody likes war. The only ones that do are those making a profit and that ain't you and me. I'd guess it wasn't that woman in Truckee either. BTW, great town, my sister lives in King's Beach. Back to the point, your sign is crude. I have two kids and they are strongly opposed to war, this war, any war. The concepts I've tried to instill upon then focus around what is right and what is wrong. I know we could argue as to the morallity of any given point of view but, I think most can agree that killing another being is wrong. Therefore, war is wrong. As for your sign, I have two kids, and I am trying to raise them to know the difference between right and wrong. Now I don't like having to explain to them why someone would decide to use the word "FUCK" to argue their opinion. Let alone why someone would post it on the back of their vehicle. Remember to keep the discourse civil, you'll feel better about yourself and in the long run you'll prove a stronger point. Your intention is correct your verbage isn't. Enough of this, It's good to have another native of the City around.
Take it easy,
-John

[DjEep]

My girlfriend got the idea from a Jerry Rubin book. It is meant to offend.
the point is to spark the thought: which word is more offensive, Fuck or War. If someone is more offended by the former, i can't understand their logic. The word "fuck", crude or not is a word that conveys carnal physical love, whereas war conveys only physical violence. It is also a word that gets attention, no matter what the context. I'll let Jerry explain:

"A dying culture destroys everything it touches.
Language is one of the first things to go.
Nobody really communicates with words anymore. Words have lost their emotional impact, intamacy, ability to shock and make love.
Language prevents comunnication.

'Cars Love Shell Gas'

How can I say
'I Love You'
after hearing:
'Cars Love Shell Gas'

Does anyone understand what I mean?"

"But there is one word which amerika has not destroyed.
One word that has maintained its emotional power and purity.
Amerika can not destroy it because she dare not use it.
It's Illegal!
It's the last word left in the english language:
FUCK!!!

One bright winter day in Berkeley, John Thompson crayoned on a piece of cardboard 'FUCK WAR' sat down with it and was arrested within two minutes. Two more people sat down with signs saying 'FUCK WAR'. They were arrested.

The Filthy Speech Movement Had Begun"

"'Nobody would have gotten excited if i had held a sign that said 'Kill Vietnamese'', John said.
So he said 'FUCK WAR' and four mighty letters brought the Great University to a Grinding Halt."

"how can you separate politics from sex? It's all the same thing: body politic.

POLITICO-SEXUAL REALITY: The naked human being is immoral under christianity and amerikan law. Nudity is called 'Indecent Exposure.' Fuck is a dirty word because you have to be naked to do it. Also its fun."

"We are taught that our shit stinks. We're taught to be ashamed or how we came into this world-Fucking."

"We are taught : Body pleasure is immoral!
We're really taught to hate ourselves."

[DjEep]

And this woman's was the first negative reaction after a month of daily honks+peacesigns.

And the woman gave no indication that the "Fuck" is what offended her so. Trust me, your reaction was the reaction i expected from her, but no, it was a very pro-war/death attitude.

[DurocShark]

That was interesting. Thanks.

(I always wondered why violence was allowed on children's ... or adult's ... television, but not sex. Still doesn't make sense to me...)

[Amskeptic]

Your point is well-taken and the arguments are understandable. I was surprised by the vehemence of of the reaction to Janet Jackson's alleged breast exposure at the Superbowl halftime show when I looked around and saw Terminator and Blade Runner movies etc glorified. And yes, people were talking about the poor children once again, the poor children who might have seen the breast which was responsible for their very survival in the beginning. Yet these societal morals cops would not think twice about the glorified violence that is used reliably in this culture.

The tired arguments about liberal Hollywood are nonsense. The problem is more nuanced than that. It is MONEY that twists our consensus of what is right and wrong. Hollywood follows the money with "sex sells." To hell with the tender sensibilities of children if money is to be made. Corporate Retail also follows the money, if money is to be made off of the new trend in pitching perfumes and make-up and manicures to young children, they'll do it, who cares about childhood?

So we have money pushing the "fuck" and we have money pushing the "war" and the root is greed. There is little sense of "enough" in this materially-blessed culture, so we strive and strive for crap that is empty and meaningless, we seek ever more fancy entertainment including that putrid Jackson/Timberlake show, and there is nothing like a good war to help Halliburton's bottom line.

Call the greedy out and they will fight back with "you're just a hippiecommietraitor" instead of an actual exchange of ideas or perspective. That mindless reaction is an excellent example of the consequences of this culture's disappearing sense of purpose and community. I have been hammered with the label of "hating America" when it is only a desperate love of our original purpose and principles.
I am at the party at this beautiful old house, and I see fellow guests littering the veranda, scooping up hod'oevres with their hands, and yelling, "lighten up you old fool, let's paaaaarty!" and they have no idea.
Colin

[LiveonJG]

I get the impression my last post was misunderstood.
I quote from the description of this site's General Chat Forum:

General Chat
Keep it clean in here. Children are present.
Moderators Sluggo, Amskeptic

Take note, Children are present.

Having a sign in the back of your vehicle is akin to posting in the General Chat Forum, everone can see it. I use many colorful words myself, but not around my kids. I'm also not a moralist decrying a boob on TV (in this case Janet Jackson, not W). Before I had kids myself I never would have even considered arguing this point. But in them I can see such purity and innocence. I'm well aware that it won't last but I'll do my best to let them enjoy it while they can. I'm not trying to crow "Protect the Children Protect the Children" here, but while I can see a sign with the phrase "FUCK WAR" and be able to put it into the correct context, and not be offended by it, a child cannot. I really don't give a rats ass as to the semantics of the word fuck. It has many connotations some good some bad. But as has been quoted, it is meant to offend. I have no problem with that, it takes something offensive to get most Americans off their collective fat asses. Just look at how popular opinion about the Vietnam War changed once we saw Buddist Monks lighting themselves on fire in protest. All I am saying here is before you intend to offend, consider exactly who your audience is.

[tedebare]

Don't get me started on corporate greed. A corporation is a created legal entity whose sole purpose is to make money. Human need and desires have no place in the corporate world if it doesn't make them MONEY. Money is the bottom line. In the corporate world today, corporations make money whatever way they can,i.e. by laying off older workers so they don't have to supply benefits or retirement incomes. Corporations can, at any time, declare bankruptcy to dissolve their pension plans in order to make the bottom line look better.
A new scam is to turn the pension plans over the the Federal Gov't, in which the retirees get 2/3's of their retirement income forcing many older workers to keep on working to stay alive. Why do you think you see so many older workers at WalMart.
Corporations have no sole or consideration of people....

[tedebare]

BTW, the objecting lady may have had a son\daughter in the military prompting her speech.

[LiveonJG]

BTW, the objecting lady may have had a son\daughter in the military prompting her speech.

Could be, but I'd hazard a guess that she's been indoctrinated by the "Liberal" news media. Fear is a strong motivator and we all have soooooooo much to fear these days. Thank God we have such strong leadership in the White house to keep us safe! Since it doesn't always translate well in cyberspace, THAT was sarcastic!

[Amskeptic]

Take note, Children are present.
Having a sign in the back of your vehicle is akin to posting in the General Chat Forum, everone can see it.

I agree that Fuck War is a sticker I would not put on my car for the reasons you state. . . I want people to have some say over the exposure their children are subject to.

But boy this world is well past caring. Therefore, if the children in my care were subjected to that sticker, my job would be to process it with them. If they are old enough to read it, they are old enough to absorb a simple explanation "that sticker is using a swear word to tell others that they hate war. I hate how war hurts people too. Remember when I told you to quit pissing off the cat and I got in trouble with your mom for using the wrong words? Shit! Now I'm going to get in trouble again. Aw fuck, I can't say shit."
Colin

[LiveonJG]

But boy this world is well past caring.

I really hope that's not true. If it is we're all fucked and you might as well just give up trying. Any interaction to be a success requires the parties involved to maintain a certain degree of respect, a proper decorum must be maintained. I know right now things seem dismal, but well past caring? Look at the lessons from history. Fanaticism increases exponentially around the turn of the century. Look at the persecution of the Freemasons 100 years ago. Not to mention the end of the world wackos that always seem to sprout up. Sound familiar? Turn of the century? We're looking at a millenium here. Therefore, BIGTIME wackos. Keep it in perspective. Good will prevail, it always does. The biggest concession you can make is to give up hope. Colin, I've read your words and been impressed by your insight, but never once did I think this is a man who has given up. Complacency is the true evil.
-John

BTW what does this emoticon mean? :smt117

[Amskeptic]

But boy this world is well past caring.

I've read your words and been impressed by your insight, but never once did I think this is a man who has given up. Complacency is the true evil.

I should clarify I use the phrase "the world" to mean the sum total of our social communication/commerce. I like that phrase "be in the world but not of the world" it was in some book I read. I meet individuals every day who give a big damn, I depend on them.

I do give up in the presence of those who have decided that they possess the answers, but I will never give up in the presence of those who continue to ask questions. How can you not ask questions when you realize that you know barely half of what you did when you were 20?
Colin