The Fall Of Our Rome

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:26 am

Article in The New York Times 09/30 by Robert Harris.

Rome's war fleet was attacked at the port of Ostia in the fall of 68B.C. and two senators were kidnapped. This was considered a serious provocation against the mighty Empire.

Rome's response was to overreact but the enemy was not an easily identifiable nation-state, it was a group of disaffected loosely-organized "pirates."

Because Rome's leaders had to make a big show of their power against a rag-tag collection of shadowy mal-contents, they ended up making decisions that weakened their own Constitution, eroded the liberty of their own citizens, and weakened their treasury.

The internal debate on how best to respond to the provocation quickly devolved into a "yer either for us or agin us" with those in control of the treasury whipping up a good general panic to help them maintain control of the spending to pay for the "war on terror."

The rights that were ceded were never to return.
(just like the innumerable toll roads in the U.S. whose toll booths were to be torn down after the bonds were paid off, but of course never were)

So Habeas Corpus has finally been tampered with. I am disgusted.
Our U.S. Congress is inexplicably in panic-mode leading up to the current election,
and they are selling our National Soul to appear tough.
Cowards.

Read the article.
Colin

chitwnvw · Post by **chitwnvw** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:13 pm

Sorrow of the empire. It's a shame it has to come to this and beyond any change to happen. Yet history show us this is the path we must take, over and over.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:09 pm

chitwnvw wrote: It's a shame it has to come to this and beyond any change to happen. Yet history show us this is the path we must take, over and over.

Let's change history. It takes a little sticking your neck out, but it is worth it. Preaching to the choir ain't gonna do it. Finding the fence sitters might.
You game?
Colin

DurocShark · Post by **DurocShark** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:43 am

I have yet to find any fence sitters. Everybody I've spoken to has definite opinions.

The general population has polarized along party lines. This keeps showing up in polls.

Not like it'll matter since the election shall be rigged again (though I'll vote anyway.)

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:41 am

how can there be so many rigged elections that the house the senate and the executive branch are all controlled by republicans. Don't forget all the people in the so called fly over states. The heartland. They vote too. The house of representatives has to many members from to many districts in to many states to fix all those elections and get away with it. The far left is ensconced in a few highly populated states on the coasts and around the Great Lakes. Then there is the whole rest of the country. The silent majority is speaking with their votes.

Now don't think I'm some far right waco 'cause I'm not. I'm what's called an unenrolled voter in my state. I vote for the candidate that thinks closely to the way I think. Sometimes democrat and sometimes republican and sometimes independent.

How many of you are gun owners? Like to go hunting? The far left would like to take that away from you. How many of you are pro choice? The far right would like to take that away from you. Me I'm pro gun and pro choice that's a reason for me to be unenrolled. I'm watching Joe Leiberman in Connecticut because I like the way he thinks. I hope he wins his seat as the independent candidate and eventually runs for president.

Bill

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:54 am

vdubyah73 wrote: how can there be so many rigged elections that the house the senate and the executive branch are all controlled by republicans. The silent majority is speaking with their votes.

Gerrymandering (see Texas: Tom Delay)
Provisional Ballots (see Florida Ohio where black votes were disallowed at a hugely larger % than any white votes demographic analysis and Arizona where the Native American population was utterly disenfranchised > casino rip-off; Abramoff>Delay)
Diebold Voting Machine Distribution Shenanigans (see CEO: promise to Bush)

This "silent majority" is not a majority sorry to tell you. Over and over and over again, polls show Americans want gun CONTROL not eradication, CONTROL, as in a proper licensing procedure and limits on gun show buys. But the damn NRA usurps the will of the people every time with a buy out of the $$$piggy Congress.
Colin

chitwnvw · Post by **chitwnvw** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:58 am

You don't need to rig all the elections, just pick the ones that are split close to 50-50 and give your side that little bit extra. Daley did it for Kennedy in '60, Jeb did it for his Bro in 2000. I wonder if the politicos don't take this as part of the game, if you can do it and get away with it, then it's stupid not to do it.

Hippie · Post by **Hippie** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:37 pm

vdubyah73 wrote:How many of you are gun owners? Like to go hunting? The far left would like to take that away from you. How many of you are pro choice? The far right would like to take that away from you. Me I'm pro gun and pro choice that's a reason for me to be unenrolled. Bill

=D> Trapped in the middle of two intolerable extremes.

Rob

DjEep · Post by **DjEep** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:03 pm

vdubyah73 wrote:Joe Leiberman....president.

Dear God, no...

Post by **Amskeptic** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:07 pm

DjEep wrote:
vdubyah73 wrote:Joe Leiberman....president.
Dear God, no...

What. . . . you don't like a little stuffed shirt sanctimony?

DjEep · Post by **DjEep** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:52 pm

We'd have to shower behind big black bars.

Anybody who looks that much like a penis shouldn't be afraid of his.

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:52 am

He is funny looking ! But he's an old school democrat, no extremism just realism.

Bill

DjEep · Post by **DjEep** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:37 am

other than being an extremely boring and sanctimonious turd?
"Realism" doesn't exist, it just means he sees things closer to the way you do.

I could say Pat Buchanan is "realist" because he sees a problem with immigration but that doesn't make him any less of a xenophobic, racist, uptight, evil shitbrick.

CoPilot · Post by **CoPilot** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:44 pm

[quote="DjEep"]other than being an extremely boring and sanctimonious turd?
"Realism" doesn't exist, it just means he sees things closer to the way you do. quote]

ahh, I get...

DjEep · Post by **DjEep** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:28 pm

Not much to get there, I was just being a sanctimonious turd myself!

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Itinerant Air-Cooled

The Fall Of Our Rome

The Fall Of Our Rome