Let's say I break into your house

[Hippie]

Then we must answer why American business promotes ILLEGAL immigration.
Colin

Funny how that "free market" and "supply and demand" shit only goes when it's convenient for corporate america. The minute there's a labor demand that might force wages up...........
Rob

.

[DjEep]

And the tired old claim that illegal immigrants are draining our budgets is pure hogwash, their contribution to the economy far exceeds the social program costs. Let's ratchet up our understanding here. . . . . their labors are siphoned into the obscene profit margins we now call the norm, their social needs are competing with our social service needs because we have strangled our social service budgets "we can't afford to pay these social costs. . ." the hell we can't. We can pay for a 300 billion dollar war AND tax cuts for the rich, but we can't keep social services funded? Bullshit. We have only illustrated our priorities with how we spend our money.
Colin

[DjEep]

Then we must answer why American business promotes ILLEGAL immigration.
Colin

Funny how that "free market" and "supply and demand" shit only goes when it's convenient for corporate america. The minute there's a labor demand that might force wages up...........
Rob

.

my point exactly...

[steve74baywin]

All this talk about immigrants breaking in.... I thought this was the land of the free, I thought we welcomed them? The point is those who hire them illegally and pay them low wages, that is where the blame is, if people want to run from a bad country and come here. . . I welcome them, but of course I'm not a Right Wing Christian, so I don't claim to follow tenants of a faith and then ignore them in practice.

[Amskeptic]

so we are preaching to the choir here. What can we do to get it out into the National Dialogue?? Bill? Still with us here?
Colin

[vdubyah73]

No time. Broke cv on buggy. Actually exploded it. Had to reteieve buggy in the dark on Sunday. Monday after work, had to drag it thirty mile to my shop and get it up on jack stands. Gotta leave for work now. Bye

Bill

[DurocShark]

This was touched on a few posts ago...

I think we should be strict as hell on ILLEGAL immigration.

But I also think we should relax the LEGAL immigration standards to allow more honest folks in.

Why should we be stricter? Not everybody outside our borders is honest. Believe it or not, there are liars and criminals outside the US too. We should be able to catch the bad apples before they get in.

But you guys are right about most illegals being VERY hardworking, honest, and just looking for better for their families. I welcome them.

[Amskeptic]

This was touched on a few posts ago...

I think we should be strict as hell on ILLEGAL immigration.

Lubricate CVs every 30,000 miles even with perfect boots

I agree about illegal immigration. The painful path in for the legal immigrants must be respected by upholding the law for everyone.
Colin

[DurocShark]

This was touched on a few posts ago...

I think we should be strict as hell on ILLEGAL immigration.

Lubricate CVs every 30,000 miles even with perfect boots

Damn! I still haven't rebooted my CV's!

[Adventurewagen]

Over all I think its a pretty sad mess we've got. Stricter border enforcement has actually caused less migration across the borders. Once upon a time all the illegals that picked fruit in Eastern Washington would sneak up for the summers, make their money and go home. But now with harder times to get back and forth they bring their families and now just stay hear and add to our already growing problem with poverty.

And... If you think there is a drain on society from them don't forget our own people who are drug addicts or others with mental problems that can't stand on their own two feet in society and drain our money as well. I feel sorry for most of those people. It would be really nice if there was some way we could funnel more money to more people on the bottom who are willing to work for something.

Go rent the movie "Dark Days" sometime. Its all about a group of bums/drug addicts who live literally under the city in subway tunnels. As messed up as they are and as obvious as it is they'd never be able to hold a regular job they are still people and still fight to survive and work and get food. And whats sad is how hard they actually work to get some measily stinking amount of cash. If we could provide a better means for people like that to make some money and/or provide food too it would really improve their quality of life.

I guess I'm more of a realist. I just figure we are ALWAYS going to have illegals in the country but we also have our own population that lives in the poverty line and may or may not put a strain on our tax dollar and system so its hard to point the finger to just one as the problem. I think we've just got to focus on what we can do to more effectively give these people more money and benefits so that they can live and hopefully some day get themselves or their children out of the streets. My wife volunteers at a local free clinic so I get to hear about these people all the time. Its really sad when you realize that alot of illegals and street folks are there because they can't get out of it and never will no matter what we give them. All we can do is try to realize it will always be there and we need to figure out how to work with it.

Could you imagine if we had a government sponsored day labor type program? Where if you showed up we'd pay you a wage for the day (already taxed to make some people happy)? it probably still wouldn't be enough to beat out those other people who drain society by collecting unemployment when they don't need to or have 12 kids to collect more money, but for people in a real pinch (drugged out or illegals) they could help our society and still make some money to do simple things like provide food and shelter.

[hambone]

"Lubricate CVs every 30,000 miles even with perfect boots"
ya know, I've never done it in all the years I've been driving these creatures. Someone once told me that if the boot's ok then don't worry about it but that's not right.
Preventive maintenance saves $$$. But I'm so laaaaaaazy....
I'll do it in springime. I gotta check the rear brakes etc. anyway. Colin, have you ever considered visiting people and helping with their VWs? You seem to know quite a bit. Just a friendly suggestion!

[hambone]

How long until I'm "hooked"???? Addicted? Crazed?

[vdubyah73]

CV that broke was a stock one in my dune buggy. 180 hp through a 60 hp part, they only last a couple years. I just replace 'em when they break.

As far as illegals go, they're illegal they sap our medical system and schools and what ever happened to having to learn the language to be a citizen ? The problem is from both parties the right wants them for cheap labor and the left wants them to vote for them. An economy that is based on a combination of capitalism, high taxes and a welfare state doesn't work. A free market economy does work . If you want it bad enough you can get it in this country, where I live you have people fom the mid east owning convenience stores , eastern europeans owning gas stations, Brazilians owning resteraunts and lanscaping companies. Ya can't just let 'em in it's not fair to those that have been trying to get in legally for god knows how long .
Capitalism works look at the communist countries they have either collapsed or are moving toward a capitalist economy ( U.S.S.R., China ) . Socialist Republics are also fading they are collapsing under the weight of their social welfare systems. (France, Sweden )
Maybe I just have to ask, lets agree to disagree Cause I don't think I'm gonna change anybodies mind. I'm not eloquent or persuasive enough, and you ain't gonna change my mind because I used to think like you guys do.

Bill

[hambone]

Well, think about it: how far will you really get in this country not speaking English? Sure there's a thousand crappy labor jobs.
I guess I'm baised, I find Mexicans to be honorable, hard working, and extremely family dedicated. I know many Americans that could take a lesson from that. And I've been to Mexico, and they're not exactly rollin in th' dough down there. I wonder how different it would be to wear their shoes? If your rich neighbor has 1000 chickens and your babies are hungry...................................

[DjEep]

Maybe I just have to ask, lets agree to disagree Cause I don't think I'm gonna change anybodies mind. I'm not eloquent or persuasive enough, and you ain't gonna change my mind because I used to think like you guys do.

Ok, then this post and subsequent posts in response to yours are merely being placed out into the ether to hopefully be absorbed by people who think like you, not necessarily you. (except the first cheap shot here... )

As far as illegals go, they're illegal

So is pot but you already said you were for legalizing that...

they sap our medical system and schools

I thought that's what we have Republicans for... Ba-zing!

A free market economy does work.

Then why are you so afraid of the "illegals" takin' yer jobs? They are using the free-est market principles around.