Ever Closer ...

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Amskeptic
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Ever Closer ...

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:23 am

... to Fascism.

If you do not yet see the threat, you may never see the threat.
(p.s. we are still in a pandemic)

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MountainPrana
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by MountainPrana » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:30 pm

There are so many threats in that picture...

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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:59 pm

No threat at all. Nearly four years later and everyone is still here moving along.

Now with Biden in....

He had 47+ years in office to get it right. He hasn't gotten anything right. You may as well vote for Hillary. LOL!
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by asiab3 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:42 am

72Hardtop wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:59 pm
…everyone is still here moving along…
183,000 people shy of everyone.

Your life experience and personal views aren't everyone's. Just because you didn't die of Covid doesn't mean my family members didn't.

Robbie
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:29 am

asiab3 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:42 am
72Hardtop wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:59 pm
…everyone is still here moving along…
183,000 people shy of everyone.

Your life experience and personal views aren't everyone's. Just because you didn't die of Covid doesn't mean my family members didn't.

Robbie
Everyone dies in the end. When it's ones time, it's time. No one gets out alive.

Fact is they went about it the wrong way from the get go, They know who it affects mostly 65+ with 2 or more underlying conditions. With that info you focus on that. Kids are nearly unaffected. The one size shoe fits all approach was wrong.

We never went to this extreme with any disease. And there have been others with much higher mortality rates.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
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JLT
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by JLT » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:52 pm

72Hardtop wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:29 am



Everyone dies in the end. When it's ones time, it's time. No one gets out alive.
OK, Doctors, that's your cue. Go home. All your patients are going to die anyway. Firefighters, too. All the lives you save will perish in the end. Lifeguards, that drowning person is going to die anyway someday, so you might as well not get your swimsuit wet. (And yes, that's sarcasm.)
Fact is they went about it the wrong way from the get go, They know who it affects mostly 65+ with 2 or more underlying conditions. With that info you focus on that. Kids are nearly unaffected. The one size shoe fits all approach was wrong.
Jeez, where have you been? We're now hearing that there are surges in mortality among younger people ... teens, even ... and that the concerns with kids is not just that they'll die from it (of which the odds are small, as you've noted) but that they'll catch it and bring it home to mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and Aunt Cora, who's recovering from cancer. And testing on school-age children, particularly those in middle-school and high school, has shown that a high percentage of them are testing positive for COVID, even though they're asymptomatic.

Your view is based on what people knew about the virus last winter and early spring. Sadly, the experts were wrong in many ways. It wasn't because they were negligent, but because they didn't have the data we have now. They were doing the best they could with what they had, erring on the side of caution whenever possible. If they hadn't, the pandemic would be worse now, with more people getting sick, hospitals and clinics running out of PPEs a lot sooner, and patients waiting for ventilators that hadn't even been built yet.

I suggest you start getting your information from the Mayo Clinic, WHO and the Johns Hopkins University. (I would have added the CDC to that list, but their information stream has been pissed in by the White House, who waited until Dr. Fauci was under sedation before they promulgated a new, less intensive testing program that better suited Trump's "The less we test, the few cases we'll have" strategy for keeping his image untarnished.)

Honestly, do you even follow the news from reputable sources, or are you buying what Fox News and Trump's Twitter feeds are sending you? I'm serious. The information is out there, and we can't be willfully blind about it. That's only going to prolong the agony. See what your local health department has to say about it. They're only a phone call or a couple of browser clicks away.
We never went to this extreme with any disease. And there have been others with much higher mortality rates.
Yes, there were. and we've learned from them not to take contagious diseases lightly. And Ebola, which indeed has a higher mortality rate, isn't spread by airborne viruses, but by actual contact with an infected person's body, blood, or urine. So it's more easily contained, once the proper measures are taken. Nobody is going to give you Ebola by sneezing five feet away from you.

If you continue to share your opinions on health-related matters, please state your qualifications. I'll state mine right here: I was employed as a Health Educator (capitalized because it was my job title) by the Baltimore City Health Department for five years. It was part of my job to learn about pandemics and epidemics, the statistical methods for analyzing and interpreting the data on them, and teaching the principles of public health to others.

Your turn.
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
'71 Frankenwestie "Thunder Bus"

72Hardtop
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:54 pm

JLT wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:52 pm
72Hardtop wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:29 am



Everyone dies in the end. When it's ones time, it's time. No one gets out alive.
OK, Doctors, that's your cue. Go home. All your patients are going to die anyway. Firefighters, too. All the lives you save will perish in the end. Lifeguards, that drowning person is going to die anyway someday, so you might as well not get your swimsuit wet. (And yes, that's sarcasm.)
Fact is they went about it the wrong way from the get go, They know who it affects mostly 65+ with 2 or more underlying conditions. With that info you focus on that. Kids are nearly unaffected. The one size shoe fits all approach was wrong.
Jeez, where have you been? We're now hearing that there are surges in mortality among younger people ... teens, even ... and that the concerns with kids is not just that they'll die from it (of which the odds are small, as you've noted) but that they'll catch it and bring it home to mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and Aunt Cora, who's recovering from cancer. And testing on school-age children, particularly those in middle-school and high school, has shown that a high percentage of them are testing positive for COVID, even though they're asymptomatic.

Your view is based on what people knew about the virus last winter and early spring. Sadly, the experts were wrong in many ways. It wasn't because they were negligent, but because they didn't have the data we have now. They were doing the best they could with what they had, erring on the side of caution whenever possible. If they hadn't, the pandemic would be worse now, with more people getting sick, hospitals and clinics running out of PPEs a lot sooner, and patients waiting for ventilators that hadn't even been built yet.

I suggest you start getting your information from the Mayo Clinic, WHO and the Johns Hopkins University. (I would have added the CDC to that list, but their information stream has been pissed in by the White House, who waited until Dr. Fauci was under sedation before they promulgated a new, less intensive testing program that better suited Trump's "The less we test, the few cases we'll have" strategy for keeping his image untarnished.)

Honestly, do you even follow the news from reputable sources, or are you buying what Fox News and Trump's Twitter feeds are sending you? I'm serious. The information is out there, and we can't be willfully blind about it. That's only going to prolong the agony. See what your local health department has to say about it. They're only a phone call or a couple of browser clicks away.
We never went to this extreme with any disease. And there have been others with much higher mortality rates.
Yes, there were. and we've learned from them not to take contagious diseases lightly. And Ebola, which indeed has a higher mortality rate, isn't spread by airborne viruses, but by actual contact with an infected person's body, blood, or urine. So it's more easily contained, once the proper measures are taken. Nobody is going to give you Ebola by sneezing five feet away from you.

If you continue to share your opinions on health-related matters, please state your qualifications. I'll state mine right here: I was employed as a Health Educator (capitalized because it was my job title) by the Baltimore City Health Department for five years. It was part of my job to learn about pandemics and epidemics, the statistical methods for analyzing and interpreting the data on them, and teaching the principles of public health to others.

Your turn.
No one is saying drop everything and go home. That just won't happen to any degree. The response was greatly over estimated. As for the mortality rate among the young. You're wrong. That just isn't occurring. More testing does just one thing...It confirms what we already know. The virus is everywhere and has been everywhere. We know that many of the new cases are originating from guess where? The home. No one has ever effectively stopped a virus from spreading. And that will continue. Focus needs to remain solely on...Treatment. And treating those that need it the most.

Demand the impossible. You'll get acceptable.

As for my background 25+ years as a traveler RN, BSN. I've worked in more than 8 states over the years. Specifically in emergency-trauma room care. Been there. Done that. And your info on Ebola is not entirely true. The WHO has been in bed with China from the get go and have on more than (1) occasion demonstrated that. Which is why they are in the position they are in in terms of it's funding.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

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JLT
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by JLT » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:14 am

72Hardtop wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:54 pm

As for the mortality rate among the young. You're wrong. That just isn't occurring.
Please note that I made the distinction between mortality rate and infection rate. And my sources were preliminary studies made in South Korea among school-age children, as reported in the New York Times and the Washington Post. I continue to watch this situation, particularly since the subject is getting a lot of scrutiny for Boards of Health all across the country due to its effect on the decisions on when, how, and even whether to re-open the schools.

No one has ever effectively stopped a virus from spreading. And that will continue.
I'm sure you're right about that. The effort of containment has always been about slowing the rate of infection (AKA "flattening the curve") so that when these cases inevitably come in, they will not strain the capacities of health care systems to treat them. The idea is to delay the spread of infection as long as we can, until more effective means of control like immunizations can be developed, tested, and implemented.
Focus needs to remain solely on...Treatment. And treating those that need it the most.
And that's a huge part of the containment strategy. Treatment works best when the resources are there.

Right now, there seem to be three avenues for treatment, as near as I can figure: antibody plasma, which may or may not have long-term effects; immune-suppressants to overcome the body's over-reaction to the infection; and ventilation of respiratory systems as a last-ditch measure to keep the patient breathing until he either recovers or dies (which itself is giving the patient roughly equal odds). And "recovery" in these cases simply means that the patient lives, although the damage to lungs and other organs will probably be permanent. As for the less severe cases, we simply don't know what the long-term damage is, and won't know until some time has passed.

As for my background 25+ years as a traveler RN, BSN. I've worked in more than 8 states over the years. Specifically in emergency-trauma room care. Been there. Done that.
I respect those credentials. And as someone who has been on the front lines of treatment, I think you can appreciate what was happening in trauma/emergency settings when the pandemic was at its peak, and corpses were put into cold storage because there was no room for them in the morgues, COVID cases were put in pediatric units and maternity wards because that's where the only beds were, and health providers were working crazy hours with inadequate PPE. (The New Yorker magazine had first-hand reports of the impact on that city's hospitals, and I highly recommend that you read them. I'll give you the dates of that issue if you like.)

And your info on Ebola is not entirely true.
I'm sorry if my information was incorrect. Where was I wrong, and what was your source for the information?

I hope that this conversation results in both of us being more enlightened about the subject. That's what Colin had in mind when he set up the Free Speech part of this website. Let's do him proud.
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:14 am

Mortality vs infection rate is like apples to oranges. I see folks everyday who come in and they are classified' droplet'. More than 99 percent get a swab...then go home. This is in a busy King County south Seattle hospital. We have not had a single day since January with an 8+ hour wait in the ER. Not a single one. Often times when I come in on the shift (7p-7a) the triage lobby is empty and never full. Even thru the shift.

In New York there were hospitals that were just not seeing the droves of patients that other area hospital/s were. That is poor planning on staff resources. Rather than spread the case load out. As a result many RN's were leaving the area or worse they had difficulty getting travelers to come in. Both New York and California sold off much of their vent machines and mobile hospitals due to not wanting to pay for storage...

and in 2011, the administration of a fiscally minded Democratic governor, Jerry Brown, who came into office facing a $26-billion deficit.

And so, that year, the state cut off the money to store and maintain the stockpile of supplies and the mobile hospitals. The hospitals were de-funded before they’d ever been used.

In the end the virus decides when it's done running it's course. My wife is an MD (Internal Med) who's from Japan. In Japan they've decided herd immunity and schools are opening. Parents decide whether they want them to come back or do online study. This is how it should be here. Ones personal health & well being needs to be decided on their own accord not from Big brother.
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by tommu » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:56 pm

72Hardtop wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:14 am
In Japan they've decided herd immunity
Japan did not choose to allow enough infections to generate herd immunity. That is a false narrative.

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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:23 am

I live both here in the USA and in Japan (Fujieda-Shizuoka) 2-4 months of the year. They did indeed. Nothing is closed in Japan. Some businesses may be operating at lower capacity but nothing is officially closed. The Olympics have been postponed.
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2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
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NGK BP6ET plugs
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tommu
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by tommu » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:32 am

But they did not decide to engage in Herd Immunity did they?

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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:57 pm

It was openly discussed to great links with the Japaneses parliament.

They came to the conclusion that closing....then opening....and closing....

Was only going to accomplish one thing. Prolonging the inevitable.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
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tommu
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by tommu » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:43 pm

Japan did not pursue the policy of herd immunity and certainly has not achieved it.

You appear not to care about the truth. It must get in the way of your feelings or something.

72Hardtop
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Re: Ever Closer ...

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:14 pm

tommu wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:43 pm
Japan did not pursue the policy of herd immunity and certainly has not achieved it.

You appear not to care about the truth. It must get in the way of your feelings or something.
It is what it is even if not advertised. We aren't locking anything down here.

Anyone who believes locking down is effective is plain dumb. The virus will stop when it decides to stop. We don't dictate that to any degree.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

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