Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

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Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:36 am

Fintan O'Toole
The Irish Times:

“To grasp what is going on in the world right now, we need to reflect on two things. One is that we are in a phase of trial runs. The other is that what is being trialled is fascism – a word that should be used carefully but not shirked when it is so clearly on the horizon. Forget “post-fascist” – what we are living with is pre-fascism.

It is easy to dismiss Donald Trump as an ignoramus, not least because he is. But he has an acute understanding of one thing: test marketing. He created himself in the gossip pages of the New York tabloids, where celebrity is manufactured by planting outrageous stories that you can later confirm or deny depending on how they go down. And he recreated himself in reality TV where the storylines can be adjusted according to the ratings. Put something out there, pull it back, adjust, go again.

Fascism doesn’t arise suddenly in an existing democracy. It is not easy to get people to give up their ideas of freedom and civility. You have to do trial runs that, if they are done well, serve two purposes. They get people used to something they may initially recoil from; and they allow you to refine and calibrate. This is what is happening now and we would be fools not to see it.
One of the basic tools of fascism is the rigging of elections – we’ve seen that trialled in the election of Trump, in the Brexit referendum and (less successfully) in the French presidential elections. Another is the generation of tribal identities, the division of society into mutually exclusive polarities.

Fascism does not need a majority – it typically comes to power with about forty percent support and then uses control and intimidation to consolidate that power. So it doesn’t matter if most people hate you, as long as your forty percent is fanatically committed. That’s been tested out too.

And fascism of course needs a propaganda machine so effective that it creates for its followers a universe of “alternative facts” impervious to unwanted realities. Again, the testing for this is very far advanced.
But when you’ve done all this, there is a crucial next step, usually the trickiest of all. You have to undermine moral boundaries, inure people to the acceptance of acts of extreme cruelty. Like hounds, people have to be blooded. They have to be given the taste for savagery.

Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group. This allows the members of that group to be dehumanised. Once that has been achieved, you can gradually up the ante, working through the stages from breaking windows to extermination.

People have to be given the taste for savagery. Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group.

It is this next step that is being test-marketed now. It is being done in Italy by the far-right leader and minister for the interior Matteo Salvini. How would it go down if we turn away boatloads of refugees? Let’s do a screening of the rough-cut of registering all the Roma and see what buttons the audience will press. And it has been trialled by Trump: let’s see how my fans feel about crying babies in cages. I wonder how it will go down with Rupert Murdoch.

To see, as most commentary has done, the deliberate traumatisation of migrant children as a “mistake” by Trump is culpable naivety. It is a trial run – and the trial has been a huge success. Trump’s claim last week that immigrants “infest” the US is a test-marketing of whether his fans are ready for the next step-up in language, which is of course “vermin”.

And the generation of images of toddlers being dragged from their parents is a test of whether those words can be turned into sounds and pictures. It was always an experiment – it ended (but only in part) because the results were in.

And the results are quite satisfactory. There is good news on two fronts. First, Rupert Murdoch is happy with it – his Fox News mouthpieces outdid themselves in barbaric crassness: making animal noises at the mention of a Down syndrome child, describing crying children as actors. They went the whole swinish hog: even the brown babies are liars. Those sobs of anguish are typical of the manipulative behaviour of the strangers coming to infest us – should we not fear a race whose very infants can be so devious?

Second, the hardcore fans loved it: Fifty-eight percent of Republicans are in favour of this brutality. Trump’s overall approval ratings are up to 42.5 per cent.
This is greatly encouraging for the pre-fascist agenda. The blooding process has begun within the democratic world. The muscles that the propaganda machines need for defending the indefensible are being toned up. Millions and millions of Europeans and Americans are learning to think the unthinkable.

So what if those black people drown in the sea? So what if those brown toddlers are scarred for life? They have already, in their minds, crossed the boundaries of morality. They are, like Macbeth, “yet but young in deed”. But the tests will be refined, the results analysed, the methods perfected, the messages sharpened. And then the deeds can follow."

Let us protect our freedom with all our democratic power, and continue to be brave with everything we must face.”
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:57 am

Very intriguing. So the question is .... what is the antidote? What is the defense for this devolving further?
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:05 pm

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:57 am
Very intriguing. So the question is .... what is the antidote? What is the defense for this devolving further?

I know this, children who have been truly loved are incapable of such blindness and cruelty.

Of course, fascism can mimic the words of love and even demand it, but if you know love truly, you know that it is bestowed slowly and you wait for it patiently to flower.

I do not know if we have enough voting people in this country who recoil from the darkness unleashed by the self-serving grifters in Washington, but I suspect that we do.
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by hippiewannabe » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:38 pm

I'm kind of liking this.
As I've said before, freedom is not the natural state of man. It is rare and precious, unknown in history and uncommon even today. It is won and protected only at great cost, paid for by the blood of heroes.
It is ridiculous to think that Trump is a threat to our freedom, idiot though he is. Our Constitution, and our loyal and brave military that swears an oath to defend it, not to any politician, will protect us.
I just find it ironic, and infuriating, that all of a sudden people have their guard up against Trump, while not batting an eye as leftists like Chavez and myriad others across the world crushed freedom under the guise of equality.
It's fun to watch the self-righteous Europeans, who gained and sustained their freedom only by the sacrifice of American blood and treasure, panic as they contemplate the withdrawal of our patronage.
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Bleyseng » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:24 pm

"Only by American sacrifice"? I WW2 was at great cost for everyone in Europe,Asia, etc. Since I am in Spain now, I am asked over and over " What is wrong with Trump?" "Is he crazy?" " How did you vote for him as he is like Hitler"!
Now that the right wing has secured the supreme court, we are screwed as voting laws will be changed to ridiculous voter ID laws. Voter ID with be difficult to obtain of course.
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Jivermo » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:32 am

Noam Chomsky: Donald Trump is a Distraction

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uQvig0KvU ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:24 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:38 pm
It is ridiculous to think that Trump is a threat to our freedom.

Our Constitution will protect us.

Trump is a threat to our definition of acceptable, decent, honest, trustworthy, honorable. As our tolerance grows, our understanding diminishes. As he gets away with his boorish, classless, ignorant, juvenile, narcissistic nonsense, we all lose our common language of society. Ridiculous? I think not.

And my God, our Constitution is at the mercy of people. People who are losing their dispassion as the Supreme Court becomes politicized and populated by lightweights.
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:08 am

The constitution is a piece of paper and the Court interprets the words. So now with a majority of GOP nut jobs on it we are in trouble. The whole idea of Religious Freedom only for Christians is troubling to say the least. The assault on the Freedom of Speech and Press is incredible.

and now back to Nazi Germany in the 1930's..........
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:29 pm

For all this growsing, folks better go to the polls. I'm an idiot, and forgot to put in for an absantee ballot for our primaries as I will be out of town on business next week....but will guarantee I will be either at the polls, or sending in an absantee ballot for the actual election.

Colin, I challenge you to put up a "poll" so folks can chime in on whether people voted or not. No vote, no growsing.

Better yet, go volunteer time to your fav candidate...
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by hippiewannabe » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:01 pm

Bleyseng wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:24 pm
"Only by American sacrifice"? I WW2 was at great cost for everyone in Europe,Asia, etc. Since I am in Spain now, I am asked over and over " What is wrong with Trump?" "Is he crazy?" " How did you vote for him as he is like Hitler"!
Now that the right wing has secured the supreme court, we are screwed as voting laws will be changed to ridiculous voter ID laws. Voter ID with be difficult to obtain of course.
Everyone certainly suffered, but it was the American effort that was decisive. We left the free and peaceful sanctuary of our own continent to save them.

Most common voter ID is a driver's license. Not real hard to obtain. If that's too difficult, you can get a non-operators ID from the Secretary of State. If you don't have an ID, there are alternatives, like sign an affidavit and perhaps have the ID investigated, or come back within six days with your ID. In any case, the intersection of people that can't manage to get an ID, and are likely to vote, is de minimis.

i don't consider ruling in accordance with the Constitution, rather than creating new law that the legislative and executive branches haven't seen fit to pass, as "right wing".

So Trump has two Supreme Court appointments so far, matching Obama and Clinton. In places like Venezuela, Russia and Zimbabwe, the dictator simply sweeps out his opponents and packs the court with lackeys. Obama's and Clinton's appointments are still there, for life. You may not like who gets appointed, but the founders knew what they were doing. The court changes over very slowly, and is designed to moderate the back and forth swings of elected politicians.
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:22 am

hippiewannabe wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:01 pm
In an case, the intersection of people that can't manage to get an ID, and are likely to vote, is de minimis.

Don, are you in training to become a street preacher? It would be amazing.

In any case, the number of people that both can't manage to get an ID and are likely to vote, is minimal.
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Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:57 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:22 am
hippiewannabe wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:01 pm
In any case, the intersection of people that can't manage to get an ID, and are likely to vote, is de minimis.

Don, are you in training to become a street preacher? It would be amazing.

In any case, the number of people that both can't manage to get an ID and are likely to vote, is minimal.
That works. What it really needs is a Venn diagram.
Truth is like poetry.
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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by tommu » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:58 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:38 pm
I just find it ironic, and infuriating, that all of a sudden people have their guard up against Trump, while not batting an eye as leftists like Chavez and myriad others across the world crushed freedom under the guise of equality.
Leaving aside everything else - this point really confuses me. You mention Chavez who is a) dead and b) became an autocrat in the same vein as Erdogan, Duterte or even Putin. All leaders that your Mr Trump admires and would mimic if it wasn't for that pesky constitution. In fact Trump rules more like Chavez than you would like to admit. Chavez won power democratically, repeatedly, in elections that were generally seen as fair. In the process he censored and intimidated the media, crushed the independent judiciary, imprisoned civil rights protestors and quashed the political opposition. Now if that doesn't sound like Trump - get this. When oil prices were high and the dollars were pouring in he ran a massive deficit - to artificially prop up an economy which he was simultaneously decimating. Now look what they have. Scary.

Your Mr Trump is attempting to wage a trade war with an emerging superpower whilst simultaneously spurning his allies. Make no mistake - China will make hay from this, They are forming economic alliances, alternatives to institutions such as the IMF. America working with the EU, Canada etc can resist this. Alone it cannot.

Finally - you used the word 'Leftist' here. What do you mean by that?

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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by Abscate » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:57 pm

It's fun to watch the self-righteous Europeans, who gained and sustained their freedom only by the sacrifice of American blood and treasure, panic as they contemplate the withdrawal of our patronage.
Sweet Jesus. Please read history books. America neither invented nor sustained democracy for most of its life. Its a great place, mostly because we can write about how great it can be and how not-great it has been, with impunity.

Voter ID laws are simply a canard for voter suppression of urban areas, which run Democratic. Why? Because when you have to live near a lot of people, some of them won't look like you, but you figure out they just want the same liberties as you, and you learn tolerance.

Bi-partisan studies have shown the upper limit on voter fraud influence is 0.02% of ballots cast.

Next topic.

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Re: Fascism . . . Coming To A Country Near You

Post by hippiewannabe » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:06 pm

Abscate wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:57 pm
It's fun to watch the self-righteous Europeans, who gained and sustained their freedom only by the sacrifice of American blood and treasure, panic as they contemplate the withdrawal of our patronage.
Sweet Jesus. Please read history books. America neither invented nor sustained democracy for most of its life. Its a great place, mostly because we can write about how great it can be and how not-great it has been, with impunity.

Voter ID laws are simply a canard for voter suppression of urban areas, which run Democratic. Why? Because when you have to live near a lot of people, some of them won't look like you, but you figure out they just want the same liberties as you, and you learn tolerance.

Bi-partisan studies have shown the upper limit on voter fraud influence is 0.02% of ballots cast.

Next topic.
Sweet Jesus yourself, I've read plenty of history. In 20,000 years of human civilization, and 5,000 years of recorded history, freedom is quite rare. Ancient Greece had something you could call democracy, but it was a tiny slice of its population and such a tiny slice of history that it is an interesting anomaly rather than real data point. No, it was the USA that began a real codified and sustainable liberation of the populace. A fact which will forever drive the French crazy.

Exactly how do these studies know the extent of voter fraud without checking IDs? Just like Chicago in 1960, failure to find the fraud may very well mean you don't have the capability to detect the fraud, not that the fraud didn't occur.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.

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