The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

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The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:40 am

Sometimes, David Brooks writes a good column. Veers a little at the end, "insanely hopeful", but this is as good a summation of the current republican landscape as any. Read some of the comments to the right of the story. They are a welcome sign that thoughtful people are still trying to figure things out.
Colin
The Conservative Intellectual Crisis
David Brooks
October 28, 2016
The New York Times


I feel very lucky to have entered the conservative movement when I did, back in the 1980s and 1990s. I was working at National Review, The Washington Times, The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page. The role models in front of us were people like Bill Buckley, Irving Kristol, James Q. Wilson, Russell Kirk and Midge Decter.

These people wrote about politics, but they also wrote about a lot of other things: history, literature, sociology, theology and life in general. There was a sharp distinction then between being conservative, which was admired, and being a Republican, which was considered sort of cheesy.

These writers often lived in cities among liberals while being suspicious of liberal thought and liberal parochialism. People like Buckley had friends of every ideological stripe and were sharper for being in hostile waters. They were sort of inside and outside the establishment and could speak both languages.

Many grew up poor, which cured them of the anti-elitist pose that many of today’s conservative figures adopt, especially if they come from Princeton (Ted Cruz), Cornell (Ann Coulter) or Dartmouth (Laura Ingraham and Dinesh D’Souza). The older writers knew that being cultured and urbane wasn’t a sign of elitism. Culture was the tool they used for social mobility. T.S. Eliot was cheap and sophisticated argument was free.

The Buckley-era establishment self-confidently enforced intellectual and moral standards. It rebuffed the nativists like the John Birch Society, the apocalyptic polemicists who popped up with the New Right, and they exiled conspiracy-mongers and anti-Semites, like Joe Sobran, an engaging man who was rightly fired from National Review.

The conservative intellectual landscape has changed in three important ways since then, paving the way for the ruination of the Republican Party.

First, talk radio, cable TV and the internet have turned conservative opinion into a mass-market enterprise. Small magazines have been overwhelmed by Rush, O’Reilly and Breitbart.

Today’s dominant conservative voices try to appeal to people by the millions. You win attention in the mass media through perpetual hysteria and simple-minded polemics and by exploiting social resentment. In search of that mass right-wing audience that, say, Coulter enjoys, conservatism has done its best to make itself offensive to people who value education and disdain made-for-TV rage.

It’s ironic that an intellectual tendency that champions free markets was ruined by the forces of commercialism, but that is the essential truth. Conservatism went down-market in search of revenue. It got swallowed by its own anti-intellectual media-politico complex — from Beck to Palin to Trump. Hillary Clinton is therefore now winning among white college graduates by 52 to 36 percent.

Second, conservative opinion-meisters began to value politics over everything else. The very essence of conservatism is the belief that politics is a limited activity, and that the most important realms are pre-political: conscience, faith, culture, family and community. But recently conservatism has become more the talking arm of the Republican Party.

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Among social conservatives, for example, faith sometimes seems to come in second behind politics, Scripture behind voting guides. Today, most white evangelicals are willing to put aside the Christian virtues of humility, charity and grace for the sake of a Trump political victory. According to a Public Religion Research Institute survey, 72 percent of white evangelicals believe that a person who is immoral in private life can be an effective national leader, a belief that is more Machiavelli than Matthew.

As conservatism has become a propagandistic, partisan movement it has become less vibrant, less creative and less effective.

That leads to the third big change. Blinkered by the Republican Party’s rigid anti-government rhetoric, conservatives were slow to acknowledge and even slower to address the central social problems of our time.

For years, middle- and working-class Americans have been suffering from stagnant wages, meager opportunity, social isolation and household fragmentation. Shrouded in obsolete ideas from the Reagan years, conservatism had nothing to offer these people because it didn’t believe in using government as a tool for social good. Trump demagogy filled the void.

This is a sad story. But I confess I’m insanely optimistic about a conservative rebound. That’s because of an observation the writer Yuval Levin once made: That while most of the crazy progressives are young, most of the crazy conservatives are old. Conservatism is now being led astray by its seniors, but its young people are pretty great. It’s hard to find a young evangelical who likes Donald Trump. Most young conservatives are comfortable with ethnic diversity and are weary of the Fox News media-politico complex. Conservatism’s best ideas are coming from youngish reformicons who have crafted an ambitious governing agenda (completely ignored by Trump).

A Trump defeat could cleanse a lot of bad structures and open ground for new growth. It was good to be a young conservative back in my day. It’s great to be one right now.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:40 am

At the end of the day, both parties are flawed. The election process is flawed. This years presidential candidates are a disgrace to not only America, but to the world that looks to America for many things. I can't ever recall two candidates with more flaws and baggage. The fact that both are so distrusted, disliked and vilified will only insure that nothing will get accomplished in Washington in the next 4 years. Bill Clinton's time in office wasn't that long ago. Have we all forgotten the "distractions" of his presidency? With Hillary's amount of baggage, wikileaks emails and The Clinton foundation issues continuing to bring to light more questions, what will change? No one will be discussing and addressing the important issues that need addressing in the house and congress. We will only be discussing this scandal and that scandal. It will be another repeat of her husband's presidency. If Trump gets elected? It's not going to happen. Stick a fork in him as he's done.

The only thing positive that has come out of this 2016 presidential campaign is what transpired with Bernie Sanders. His campaign showed everyone that Americans are truly becoming sick and tired of the "same ole, same ole" in politics. The fact that he was railroaded by the democratic party and by Clinton's powerful campaign only demonstrates how broken the entire election system is. The fact that Clinton will be elected only demonstrates a hell of a lot more work is needed to fix the current system.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by asiab3 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:14 pm

Amskeptic wrote:Read some of the comments to the right of the story. They are a welcome sign that thoughtful people are still trying to figure things out.
So I can find this link later when I have time to devote, here's the source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/opini ... risis.html

From there one can access the comments.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:01 pm

wcfvw69 wrote:At the end of the day, both parties are flawed. The election process is flawed. This years presidential candidates are a disgrace to not only America, but to the world that looks to America for many things.
I don't see the world looking upon Hillary or Bill Clinton as a "disgrace". They are both admired around the world. I see a bunch of parochial republicans who have made it their career to dog the Clintons, and they certainly won't look past their own noses.
wcfvw69 wrote:Bill Clinton's time in office wasn't that long ago. Have we all forgotten the "distractions" of his presidency?
I remember the good and the bad. I do not care about the distractions. Remember that Newt Gringrich was having an affair with a staffer while he was driving the impeachment forward. Henry Hyde was busted for his "indiscretion" with a secretary. Yeah, pregnancy is an "indiscretion". Bob Livingston had to step out of contention for the Speaker's position because he was having an affair at the time. Dennis Hastert, who got the job, we found out last year was paying hush money to a teenager to keep quiet. What is your point? That humans are flawed? The Clintons at least were not standing in judgment of others like the hypocritical republicans.

wcfvw69 wrote:With Hillary's amount of baggage, wikileaks emails and The Clinton foundation issues
The Clinton Foundation has done more good for more people than you know, is my guess. Wikileaks is a great daily talking point for detractors, but guess what? Read the damn things for yourself. There is hardly anything to them, unless you like to hyperventilate with Breitbart. What do you KNOW of the Clinton Foundation? That they get a higher rating than United Way or the Red Cross or UNICEF? That they put more than 87% of their contributions to work? Do you understand that the Clintons do not get paid from the foundation? They get paid gobs of money for speeches that are more informative and entertaining than any of their detractors. Maybe their detractors are jealous, I don't know, but they made their money by working for it.


wcfvw69 wrote: No one will be discussing and addressing the important issues that need addressing in the house and congress. We will only be discussing this scandal and that scandal. It will be another repeat of her husband's presidency.
That is way too simplistic. Yes, the republicans have already promised to open hearings on her and to not consider her Supreme Court justices, but that is not Hillary's fault. That is the seditious republican Congress and I pray that they get thrown out on Election Day. Remember how they would not consider Obama's pick for Supreme Court, "let the people decide"? Well, now that they see Clinton might win, they change their tune. They are beyond repugnant. They are traitorous to our Constitution and they are obstructing the Will of The People.
wcfvw69 wrote: The only thing positive that has come out of this 2016 presidential campaign is what transpired with Bernie Sanders. His campaign showed everyone that Americans are truly becoming sick and tired of the "same ole, same ole" in politics. The fact that he was railroaded by the democratic party and by Clinton's powerful campaign only demonstrates how broken the entire election system is. The fact that Clinton will be elected only demonstrates a hell of a lot more work is needed to fix the current system.
STOP! Ask Bernie what HE thinks. Ask Bernie why he is going around the country campaigning for her. Ask Bernie what he thinks of the fact that his platform got folded into the Democratic platform pretty damn well. Go ahead, ask Bernie.

We NEED to think for ourselves and run the news cycles through our own god-given minds. The repetitive asininity out there is so irritating.
Colin
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:26 pm

I feel I'm more than capable of filtering through the 24-7 news cycle that's crammed down our throats, thank you very much! :) I've read extensively about Hillary's pro's and con's. However, I stand by my statement. She's far too divisive to be an effective in achieving anything productive in Washington. We thought the republicans were brutal to Bill? OMG. Imagine what they'll do to her?!?

As my beloved Eva (who's voting for Hillary) stated, it doesn't matter who's in the oval office. Until changes are made to term limits or people FINALLY vote out the incumbent idiot senators and congressmen, nothing's changing. Oh.. Um, I am a moderate conservative but I voted against John McCain. So there!

As far as Bernie and why he 'suddenly' felt the Hillary burn? I'll wait to see what he gets after she's elected. :)
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:06 pm

wcfvw69 wrote:I feel I'm more than capable of filtering through the 24-7 news cycle that's crammed down our throats, thank you very much! :) I've read extensively about Hillary's pro's and con's. However, I stand by my statement. She's far too divisive to be an effective in achieving anything productive in Washington. We thought the republicans were brutal to Bill? OMG. Imagine what they'll do to her?!?
I guess this is my point. I have reached a point where I will be damned if the house republicans are given the space to keep on being the party of inanity, blocking real progress, obstructing our Nation's work. I will not stand for the notion that Clinton will be divisive, just as I refused to blame Obama for divisiveness. It is squarely on the shoulders of the republican obstructionists. Clinton had a good record in the Senate for working across the aisle. Where is your acknowledgment of that, you're up on her. Where is your acknowledgment of her 64% approval rating as Secretary of State? I have had it with these republicans. Look at their candidate!
wcfvw69 wrote: As my beloved Eva (who's voting for Hillary) stated, it doesn't matter who's in the oval office.
Tell your beloved Eva (my beloved chef), that millions of women and girls might disagree with you. I disagree with you, vehemently. You may not be able to imagine the difference between a President Hillary Clinton and a President Donald Drumpf, but I and many of your fellow Americans can.
wcfvw69 wrote:Until changes are made to term limits or people FINALLY vote out the incumbent idiot senators and congressmen, nothing's changing. Oh.. Um, I am a moderate conservative but I voted against John McCain. So there!

As far as Bernie and why he 'suddenly' felt the Hillary burn? I'll wait to see what he gets after she's elected. :)
Term limits are not the solution. We need a deep bench of experience. But my God, we need to get moneymoneymoney out of the halls of Congress. We also need to get rid of ignorant fools. I say, make every Congressperson take the same test as our immigrants have to, at a minimum!

Don't be so damn cynical about Bernie. He is a man of principle. I think you will find after the republican dingoes shut the hell up that Hillary Clinton also has some fine qualities. I bet she can't do steaks like Eva, though . . . .
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:04 pm

At the end of the day, I think we both want the same thing. Progress in addressing the big rocks ( like our 19 trillion dollar deficit) in Washington. I don't care what party achieves it.

BTW Colin, Eva was in the holding pattern with your meal if you had the chance to stop by on your way through the area. The same 2lb bone in cowboy cut ribeye steaks but this time she was going to do her twice baked potatoes along with the bacon wrapped asparagus. She was a bit bummed when I told her you schedule was taking you a different direction on your way east.

Maybe next year. :)
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:52 am

wcfvw69 wrote: BTW Colin, Eva was in the holding pattern with your meal if you had the chance to stop by on your way through the area. The same 2lb bone in cowboy cut ribeye steaks but this time she was going to do her twice baked potatoes along with the bacon wrapped asparagus. She was a bit bummed when I told her you schedule was taking you a different direction on your way east.

Maybe next year. :)
Oh God, I have half a mind to head west NOW . . . :bounce:


This October Surprise was no surprise. Comey . . . joining the ranks of swift-boaters, ACORN baiters, ObamaIsAMuslimslimers.
Never has the FBI commented on an ongoing investigation with no evidence, just vague imlications of possible "pertinence".

And rather than being patriotic Americans who understand our judicial system enough to realize that "innocent until proven guilty" is a bedrock principle, the republicans have gone off full-tilt loony with Donald at the fore, a raging maniac spewing disgraceful rhetoric, fomenting the furies of large crowds of tribalists into mindless mob vehemence, it is disheartening.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Bleyseng » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:39 am

Trump is just like Hitler in the 30's using Bullshit to rally the masses against certain people
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by hippiewannabe » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:50 pm

Stop blaming all Republicans for the nomination of Trump, blame a naive and uncontrolled version of democracy. Trump didn't win a majority of the vote, but because the primary was so open, the "not Trump" vote was split 17 ways. In contrast, the Democrats in the Smoke Filled Room promised Hillary this one; Obama was just too cool, and she had to step aside and wait till now for her turn. The fix was in, Bernie never had a chance.

With all of Hillary's scandal and baggage, a vanilla mainstream Republican like John Kasich would kick her ass. But the Republican Party failed to control the primary, so she's going to win against Trump. Hopefully she will have simply an ineffective presidency, not a horrific one.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:04 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:Stop blaming all Republicans for the nomination of Trump, blame a naive and uncontrolled version of democracy. Hopefully she will have simply an ineffective presidency, not a horrific one.
I blame not only all the Republicans for Trump, but I blame all Republicans going back into history as far as the first use of Lee Atwater as a campaign advisor. That is fair, and it is historically accurate. The republicans have pandered to hate for decades now. The harvest is in.

Clinton? She is a policy wonk, she does her homework, she has worked across the aisle and republicans had best not block her Supreme Court nominees or I will march on Washington . . . in my cut-offs. You, Don, do not pray for an "ineffective" Presidency. That is almost traitorous to your fellow Americans and the urgent problems we must address.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by hippiewannabe » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:05 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
hippiewannabe wrote:Stop blaming all Republicans for the nomination of Trump, blame a naive and uncontrolled version of democracy. Hopefully she will have simply an ineffective presidency, not a horrific one.
I blame not only all the Republicans for Trump, but I blame all Republicans going back into history as far as the first use of Lee Atwater as a campaign advisor. That is fair, and it is historically accurate. The republicans have pandered to hate for decades now. The harvest is in.

Clinton? She is a policy wonk, she does her homework, she has worked across the aisle and republicans had best not block her Supreme Court nominees or I will march on Washington . . . in my cut-offs. You, Don, do not pray for an "ineffective" Presidency. That is almost traitorous to your fellow Americans and the urgent problems we must address.
Colin
You misunderstand. I would never wish a president ill. I am hoping for the best, I just think ineffective is the best we can hope for.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Bleyseng » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:41 am

hippiewannabe wrote:Stop blaming all Republicans for the nomination of Trump, blame a naive and uncontrolled version of democracy. Trump didn't win a majority of the vote, but because the primary was so open, the "not Trump" vote was split 17 ways. In contrast, the Democrats in the Smoke Filled Room promised Hillary this one; Obama was just too cool, and she had to step aside and wait till now for her turn. The fix was in, Bernie never had a chance.

With all of Hillary's scandal and baggage, a vanilla mainstream Republican like John Kasich would kick her ass. But the Republican Party failed to control the primary, so she's going to win against Trump. Hopefully she will have simply an ineffective presidency, not a horrific one.
John Kasich would kick her ass, I doubt it. Bernie is great at speeches but doesn't get things done. Hillary gets things done especially if she has a democratic Senate and House, look out. Even if she doesn't the first recess she'll appoint Supreme Court Justices to fill the court so it can do its work for the one year period.
I think it will be great to have a mother as President as mom's get things done.
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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Jivermo » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:44 pm

Google the David Brooks column, "Read Buber, not the polls!" And then, go get a copy of Martin Buber's terrific book regarding relationships, "I and Thou". Worth reading, folks...and thinking about.

Buber: "I"
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Jivermo: "Thou"

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Re: The Conservative Intellectual Crisis

Post by Spezialist » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:34 pm

You pathetic pussy whipped boys, your girls own your limp dicks.
I proudly voted for O and abstained from this election.
SNL nailed you, and so did I.

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