Detroit is back, however the new spelling is Turin

[pj]

One more thing Mr. Obama said in 2012 that just didn't happen the way he thought. Also, if you remember back in 2012 Mr. Romney told us that the Jeep would be made in China, and everyone guffawed that such a statement was made. Well it looks like the Chinese Jeep is a reality and Chrysler will be HQ'd in the new Detroit, Turin.

We spent 12 billion taxpayer dollars saving Chrysler and now today, the UAW is selling out its share and it is becoming wholly owned by Fiat. Just like GM where the taxpayer lost 40 billion dollars in crappy stock certificates, Detroit may be coming back, but I don't think we can afford it.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/01/news/co ... -chrysler/

[Randy in Maine]

Come on PJ, that is not an acccurate summary and you are well aware of it.

The government intent (as far as was announced to us in the US) was not really to save GM and Chrysler, but to help save some of the 1.2 million jobs associated with the auto manufacturing business.

From a quick google search USA Today on 12/10/2013...

"U.S. taxpayers no longer own any of automaker General Motors. The Treasury sold the last of its remaining 31.1 million GM shares today. It started with 500 million shares in 2010.

The taxpayer loss on the GM bailout is $10.5 billion. The Treasury department said it recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake, and had put $49.5 billion of taxpayer money directly into the GM bailout.

The total bailout rises to $51 billion, including another $1.5 billion that Treasury put into programs to keep GM suppliers afloat and to make sure owners' warranties were honored, plus some into the old GMAC finance company that's now known as Ally — separate from a much larger Ally bailout.

That $1.5 billion didn't go directly to GM, but was spent largely on its behalf."

And another quick google search also points to this undated USA Today story....

"Chrysler signed a deal in January with Guangzhou Auto Group to establish a joint venture. Although the company needs Chinese government approval, Manley said he's optimistic production can start by the end of 2014.

Jeep is well-known in China because it was the first U.S. automaker to sell vehicles there. Former owner American Motors launched the Beijing Jeep joint venture in 1979 with government-owned Beijing Auto Works. Production began in 1985.

Chrysler bought American Motors in 1987 and continued running Beijing Jeep until early 2009. Cerberus Capital Management, the private equity fund that owned Chrysler, then exited the venture shortly before Chrysler's U.S. taxpayer-backed bankruptcy.

Two weeks before the U.S. presidential election last year, Jeep was sucked into what turned out to be one very big misunderstanding. Republican candidate Mitt Romney repeated rumors that Jeep's plan to resume making SUVs in China would come at the cost jobs in Toledo and Detroit. Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne clarified that any production in China would be in addition to Jeep output in the U.S.

Jeep did export 46,000 vehicles in 2012 to China, which surpassed Canada as Jeep's second-biggest market, Manley said.

Sales in China are limited without local production. Tariffs imposed on imported vehicles and powerful engines, "the majority" of Jeeps in China cost more than $100,000, Manley said.

A fresh wave of Chinese consumers are flocking to crossovers and sport-utility vehicles. Yale Zhang, managing director of Automotive Foresight Shanghai, said the SUV segment will grow from about 15% of China's market today to 20% in 2015, or from 2 million last year to 3.5 million by 2015.

Competitors are flooding the market with SUVs and crossover vehicles. General Motors recently started selling the Buick Encore, and Ford is introducing the Ford Kuga (Escape) and EcoSport vehicles.

This week at the Shanghai Auto Show, Mercedes-Benz showed the GLA concept vehicle.

For Jeep, Chinese production would reduce shipping costs and bring prices into a competitive range.

Manley said the new Cherokee, which will go on sale in the U.S. by late September, likely will be Jeep's first vehicle produced in China.

Manley said he hopes to expand Jeep's China dealer network from about 150 today to 200 by the end of the year. In addition, Jeep already has more than 200 licensed retail stores selling Jeep merchandise, including the Jeep Spirit line of sport clothing.

Owners of Cherokees purchased in the years before the 2009 Beijing Jeep shutdown have formed Jeep clubs, proving that its legacy resonates.

"Awareness of the brand is huge," Manley said.

You have to at least make your point (which may be valid by the way) using actual facts, not made up stuff.

[Amskeptic]

Come on PJ, that is not an acccurate summary and you are well aware of it.
You have to at least make your point (which may be valid by the way) using actual facts, not made up stuff.

News sources being what they are . . . perhaps he is not aware?

Is pj aware that the stock market has recovered under Obama?

Is pj aware that federal spending as a percentage of GDP has dropped under Obama?

Is pj aware that the annual federal deficit has been halved under Obama?

Is pj aware that per capita electrical usage has dropped something like 16% during Obama's tenure?

Is pj aware that oil production now exceeds imports in this country under Obama?

Is pj aware that the annual increases in healthcare spending have begun to level off under Obama?

It may be that pj's news sources have studiously avoided such news.
Colin

[airkooledchris]

It doesn't matter, as whomever you back when it comes to politics will skew your reality in your favor all the time.

A problem during your guys time in office? It was there when he started.
A solution when your guy isn't in the office? That ball was rolling before he got there.

When people's primary attention is to how someone else is failing, and not how we can ALL win, they will always be losers.

[Bleyseng]

It doesn't matter, as whomever you back when it comes to politics will skew your reality in your favor all the time.

A problem during your guys time in office? It was there when he started.
A solution when your guy isn't in the office? That ball was rolling before he got there.

When people's primary attention is to how someone else is failing, and not how we can ALL win, they will always be losers.

Now that I don't buy.
As Colin has pointed out a lot of stuff is better than where we were in 2007/8. Gosh Seattle is now booming with construction, home sales, condo sales and retail sales PLUS Jobs. This isn't skewed reality nor Foxnews bullshit but honest truth. Now if the Union votes for the new Boeing contract tons of jobs for the new 777X are around the corner.

[pj]

News sources being what they are . . . perhaps he is not aware?

Is Colin aware that the stock market is up on phantom money printed by the FED to prop up the economy?

Is Colin aware that those who live on interest, the elderly and such have been decimated?

Is Colin bragging about the stock market which has primarily helped the 20% of the richest Americans, making the gulf even wider? I did not know that you were such a proponent of the 1%

Is Colin aware that in five years Mr Obama has added six trillion to the debt, dwarfing the annual deficit number?

Electrical usage dropping, I would think is a by-product of a stale economy and the increasing price of electricity, not something to crow about.

Is Colin aware that increased oil production is on mostly state and private lands, the increase is in spite of Mr Obama?

Is Colin aware that on 01/20/2009 gas averaged $1.79/gallon, today here in Battle Ground, WA the price was $3.32/gallon?

Healthcare spending going down? in what word does Mr. Kellog live?

As for news sources Mr Johnson reads 2 local papers, the WSJ, and watches a variety of national news programs. Mr Johnson does not watch Mr. Kellog's "favorite" station, he can't stand proselytizing for the current Washington Savior.

Since Mr Kellog failed to mention a subject that roiled him and every swinging Richard on this forum for years. How about another series of observations?

Under Mr Bush 575 Americans died in Afghanistan, under Mr Obama 1620 Americans have died, but not one posting on this site talking about that. Matter of fact only one news program on ABC lists every weeks death on Sunday, every other news source seems to have forgotten. Wonder why that is?

Colin, how about that Gitmo closure? Thank God we got all those folks out of Cuba and on their way.

Colin how about the dropping food stamp roll? Man thank whatever religious honcho you believe in, we got America back to work.

Colin how about that new group of workers named the 29er's? Thank God they will not have to work 40 hours, gives them more leisure time.

How about the NSA just shredding the fourth amendment, now that is something I am sure Colin you appreciate.

On a personal note, Colin I believe you should be grateful that I and many like me, were able in the last budget to give back 6 billion dollars in $ and personal sacrifice. Not a big deal for me, I'm doing okay, but to take money from a trooper who is retired because he/she lost a limb or limbs and had to retire seems to be a bridge too far. But what the hell, we are doing our part once again for the country. I hope the Commander in Chief appreciates it, but I don't think he gives a shit.

Colin I do appreciate your undying admiration for Mr. Obama, I hope when it is all said and done we as a country can survive him.

[Amskeptic]

On a personal note, Colin I believe you should be grateful that I and many like me, were able in the last budget to give back 6 billion dollars in $ and personal sacrifice. Not a big deal for me, I'm doing okay, but to take money from a trooper who is retired because he/she lost a limb or limbs and had to retire seems to be a bridge too far. But what the hell, we are doing our part once again for the country. I hope the Commander in Chief appreciates it, but I don't think he gives a shit.

Colin I do appreciate your undying admiration for Mr. Obama, I hope when it is all said and done we as a country can survive him.

I believe I am grateful for what I do understand, I am grateful that I have been able to contribute to the lives of others, but I am most grateful for whatever accident of faith has allowed me to never turn away from others.
Colin

[Amskeptic]

On a personal note, Colin I believe you should be grateful that I and many like me, were able in the last budget to give back 6 billion dollars in $ and personal sacrifice. Not a big deal for me, I'm doing okay, but to take money from a trooper who is retired because he/she lost a limb or limbs and had to retire seems to be a bridge too far. But what the hell, we are doing our part once again for the country. I hope the Commander in Chief appreciates it, but I don't think he gives a shit.

Colin I do appreciate your undying admiration for Mr. Obama, I hope when it is all said and done we as a country can survive him.

I am grateful for forum members who can say things better than I in these moments:
"When people's primary attention is to how someone else is failing, and not how we can ALL win, they will always be losers."
Colin

[TrollFromDownBelow]

Hold on their PJ .... Yep, they will be making Jeeps in China, just like GM does... ok, that may be a bad example, as you are using gov't bailouts as the basis of your disgust, ridicule, etc... but so does Ford who didn't take any gov't bailouts. It is a simple market expansion...the Chinese love our American designed and made Jeeps, and local production is the price you have to pay to get into the Chinese market.

Hey, wait a second....wasn't it President Bush who started the whole automotive bailout process?

BTW - The folks in Turin are planning of spending plenty of time (and money) locally....they are already talking about what it is going to do to real estate values here locally.