High Drama In Washington

[Bleyseng]

Its a "coup" by a very small minority.....and should be treated as such. Arrest them!

[BellePlaine]

Everything has a lifecycle and look, our boat is probably sinking. Do you know why? Because our federal government is unregulated. Like a college freshman with dad’s limitless credit card, we’re out of control. We’ve given ourselves limitless spending power, spying power, printing power, world police power, and heal the sick power without seemingly any consequences. America cannot say “No” to any immediate perceived pain, even though suffering is a natural part of life. So we’ve traded in our pain for the security from a government so big that even if we shut down the non-essential parts of it, we predict that the economy tanks. Really? Then maybe that’s a sign we’re too dependent on it so let it tank, nothing can last forever, nor should it and we've got to get off of these pain pills.

I believe that one facet of our government that has allowed for a healthy long-life (up until recently) has been the built-in non-violent transfer of power through elections. Well, what do you make about rules set forth by the two parties currently in power which will not allow for new parties to be included in their debates? Those new parties have fresh thinking, new ideas which we could use. So do we really have a democracy?

Again, I believe in life cycles. I believe in natural laws like for every action there is a reaction. I’ll call that “balance”, which leads me to my last post about happiness. The Dalai Lama says that the purpose of life is to find happiness, which is cool because we even use the word “happiness” in the D o I. Well, you can’t have happiness without suffering. Both exists in the world and if we were to somehow eliminate everyone’s pain, I think that we’d also eliminate joy. So, I’ve decided to pay no attention to the shenanigans in DC. I’ll pay my taxes and I’ll continue to vote my conscience but beyond that I’m not going to waste any more time and anxiety on an unsustainable game.

$0.02, did I make anyone throw-up in their mouth?

[glasseye]

These people, these Republican people seem to have no political sense whatsoever. They're shooting themselves in the ass.

Also, they're idiots. Like this guy:

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 09781.html

[Amskeptic]

our boat is probably sinking. Do you know why? Because our federal government is unregulated.
we’ve traded in our pain for the security from a government so big that even if we shut down the non-essential parts of it, we predict that the economy tanks. Really? Then maybe that’s a sign we’re too dependent on it so let it tank, nothing can last forever, nor should it and we've got to get off of these pain pills.

Our boat is probably sinking. Do you know why? Do I know why? Because . . .
I don't really know.
Therefore I am not going to blame "the government" that is not so big actually (it has been hovering at the 21-23% of GDP since long before you were born.
Nor am I going to declare that "the government" has reduced my pain in the name of security. What does that even mean?

The threat of the economy tanking if we shut down the government is NOT evidence that we are "too dependent on it". It is evidence that it is a critical part of our lives.

The people who shout that the government is "evil" and "growing" and on and on and on, are the people who are shilling for unfettered corporate wealth/power.

Do not blame Federal workers who happen to make a livelihood working in government. Under Obama, Federal spending has diminished. The deficit has too. Acknowledge it.
Many government workers are working for you and me, insuring that our food is safe, our water is potable, our planes are maintained, etc. Please do not paint with too broad a stroke.
Colin

[Amskeptic]

So , um, anyways, oh yeah, the country is still in the paroxysms of an epic battle between the forces of fascism and the Will of The People, oh well, what's on TV?
Colin

[hippiewannabe]

...the forces of fascism and the Will of The People,..

Really? And you wonder why you don't get a lot of good-faith discussion here?

The Democrats have done the exact same fiscal hostage-taking in the past. Those radical Tea Party Fringe Congressmen were lawfully elected and are representing their constituents.

That said, Obama's media lapdogs have succeeded in blaming the Republicans while he has steadfastly refused to negotiate. When he thinks he has gained maximum political mileage out of the shutdown, he will throw them the smallest of bones to let them save a little face, and the debt will be allowed to grow from simply ridiculous to absolutely obscene

[glasseye]

...the forces of fascism and the Will of The People,..

The Democrats have done the exact same fiscal hostage-taking in the past.

So... Uh, this is revenge? Or what?

Was then. This is now.

Those radical Tea Party Fringe Congressmen were lawfully elected and are representing their constituents.

Right. And so was George W Bush.

That said, Obama's media lapdogs have succeeded in blaming the Republicans while he has steadfastly refused to negotiate.

Negotiate what? A law, passed by the government, repeatedly challenged by Republicans after it was declared law, then on appeal declared legal and constitutional by the Supreme Court?

and the debt will be allowed to grow from simply ridiculous to absolutely obscene

"Deficits don't matter"
Dick Cheney, Republican.

[Lanval]

edited...

[Amskeptic]

...the forces of fascism and the Will of The People,..

Really? And you wonder why you don't get a lot of good-faith discussion here?

Excuse me?
Do I wonder why I don't get a lot of good-faith discussion around here?
Who is to decide the level of "good-faith" discussion here?
I shared an opinion, a general observation. Then I get blasted by a veiled "you" statement impugning the State Of Discussion around here??

If I conclude that there are corporate interests (the Koch Brothers) engaged in misinformation and bending the democratic process via financial leverage that is thwarting the will of the people, that is fascism in my book. Debate the point, if you wish, but leave my wonder out of it.

The Democrats have done the exact same fiscal hostage-taking in the past. Those radical Tea Party Fringe Congressmen were lawfully elected and are representing their constituents.

As far as I know, the Democrats have never done the exact same fiscal hostage-taking in the history of the Republic.
Give us an example of when the Democrats have ever held the country's creditworthiness hostage.
Give an example of when the Democrats ever refused to acknowledge a duly passed law.
Give us an example.

The Tea Party Congressmen were lawfully elected, but unlawfully thwart the Will of the People when they vote 34 times to repeal Obamacare before and after the election that refreshed the mandate upon which it was passed. I hate to say it, but it looks to me like they are obsessed. We have seen obsessive hatred in the past. This looks like that.

That said, Obama's media lapdogs have succeeded in blaming the Republicans while he has steadfastly refused to negotiate.

"Obama's media lapdogs"? Please, hippiewannabee, we are a sophisticated and enlightened readership here, an especially humble and alert collection of citizens, we are entirely too conscious to ever allow you to slip that Rush Limbaughesque phrase into this discourse. Obama's media lapdogs? They "succeeded"? The media? The media "succeeded"? You do not negotiate with your children after they break the rules! You do not negotiate with people who are trying to destroy an already passed law, a law that was deemed Constitutional! You do not negotiate after the damn thing has been signed by all parties. You know that. Blame the media? The Republicans have shown themselves to be unworthy of their office. The American people see, as evidenced in the Republican Party's record low voter approval ratings. Who are these media lapdogs who hold such sway? Did they really succeed? At what? They have done a miserable stinking job of truly illuminating the actual causes behind this Republican/Corporate Oligarchy manufactured crisis.
The only lapdogs I see are the Koch Brothers Congressional lap poodles.

When he thinks he has gained maximum political mileage out of the shutdown, he will throw them the smallest of bones to let them save a little face, and the debt will be allowed to grow from simply ridiculous to absolutely obscene

Obama is not the cause of the debt. He has wrestled the annual deficit down, he has attempted to rein in the hitherto unchecked and immoral greed of the private healthcare market with his twice-voter-approved COMPROMISE called Obamacare (Romneycare-lite).
Obama is not the cause of the shutdown. He has asked for a clean increase in the debt limit. That is all. It is not about his political leverage. The Republicans painted themselves into this stupid corner.

If the Republicans cared about the debt (absolutely obscene, oh my) you would agree that we need to raise taxes at least back to prior levels in the history of our great country and invest in jobs and infrastructure improvement while borrowing costs are so low. Never happened. Good luck convincing The People of your true (actual) concern.
Colin

[hambone]

I am far from an Obama apologist, but the tea bagging hatred directed towards him is unwarranted. This is clearly a one-sided "battle". A law is a law. And besides, the Heath Care Reform Act is somewhat of a piece of shit, pandering to those already wealthy health "care" moguls. I guess anyone can train a chimp to shit on the floor.

[Bleyseng]

If the Republicans cared about the debt (absolutely obscene, oh my) you would agree that we need to raise taxes at least back to prior levels in the history of our great country and invest in jobs and infrastructure improvement while borrowing costs are so low. Never happened. Good luck convincing The People of your true (actual) concern.
Colin

Tea Partiers want to delay ACA, stop abortions, pour more $$ into the military, cut benefits to SS and Medicaid/Medicare while lowering taxes on the "Rich". Oh yes, the "Rich" need more money to create jobs as the "poor" are just lazy good for nothings/takers who just need to go to work.

I am sick of these idiots who try to stop laws by not including them in the budget and picking and choosing how and what get financed by the budget and what gets cut. If taxes were raised back to a sane level none of this bullshit would be happening along with reducing the military's budget which has ballooned out of control.

I actually like what Colin writes mostly as its well thought out although there are too many big words used as its hard for some of us who can't Spel an rite two well.

[hippiewannabe]

...the forces of fascism and the Will of The People,..

Really? And you wonder why you don't get a lot of good-faith discussion here?

Excuse me?
Do I wonder why I don't get a lot of good-faith discussion around here?
Who is to decide the level of "good-faith" discussion here?
I shared an opinion, a general observation. Then I get blasted by a veiled "you" statement impugning the State Of Discussion around here??

Nope, not a valid opinion or general observation. Gratuitous, hateful name-calling, This is what people associate with fascism:




Using lawful legislative procedures to try to modify a law they disagree with is not.


You speak as if Obama got 90% of the popular vote, and anyone who opposes him is undemocratic. He won fair and square, with 51% of the popular vote. Approximately half of people who voted, voted against him. About one third of the voting age population actually voted for Obama. He represents all Americans, and is subject to legal challenges to his policies. Anything else would be, well, not good.

As far as I know, the Democrats have never done the exact same fiscal hostage-taking in the history of the Republic.
Give us an example of when the Democrats have ever held the country's creditworthiness hostage.
Give an example of when the Democrats ever refused to acknowledge a duly passed law.
Give us an example.

Oh dear. MSNBC has actually erased your memory. You came of age in the '70s and '80s, so you should remember.

The government shut down seven times when O'Neill was speaker and Reagan was president. And they were real shutdowns, too, given that they occurred after Jimmy Carter's attorney general, Benjamin Civiletti, issued opinions in 1980 and 1981 saying that funding gaps had to lead to at least partial shutdowns of government functions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... shutdowns/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... hey-ended/

[hippiewannabe]

Those radical Tea Party Fringe Congressmen were lawfully elected and are representing their constituents.

Right. And so was George W Bush.

Why yes, yes he was. Twice. Bogus lawsuits by whiny sore losers notwithstanding.

[Jivermo]

Marco Rubio was mentioned earlier. Marco Rubio is a 80 year old right wing Batistiano Cuban zealot in a young man's body. The idea that he would even remotely be considered presidential quality is extremely disturbing to me. The South Florida political landscape is shaped by one supreme force: hatred of Fidel Castro. Marco Rubio, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, and the Diaz Balart family are all driven by the now half century old success of the Cuban revolution. For none of them, Rubio included, does the welfare of the United States come first above any Cuba issue. The failed US Embargo is a prime example. I have no doubt that if the embargo was not in place, Castro would have collapsed long ago. Rubio and his cronies continue to support this miserable, failed political boondoggle. Their success in propping up this scheme showcases the influence they wield in Washington. In addition, the "Wet Foot, Dry Foot" immigration policy granted to Cubans fleeing the island is another twisted scheme supported by these dangerous clowns. The great nation of ours has pretty much made a child's game into immigration policy for this one small Caribbean island. I wish every American could live in Miami for one year, and witness firsthand the political corruption and backroom shenanigans that occur down here. I was going to say that Marco Rubio is far from being presidential material. However, on second thought, perhaps he is eminently qualified, considering the state of the nation today. "Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!"

[Amskeptic]

Nope, not a valid opinion or general observation. Gratuitous, hateful name-calling, This is what people associate with fascism:
[img]jpg[/img]

Using lawful legislative procedures to try to modify a law they disagree with is not.

Glad to see that you are still here threshing it out with me.

Now then, you have decided to associate my use of the phrase "forces of fascism" as a gratuitous hateful name-calling. I firmly disagree. I also disagree and protest your use of a photograph that should be saved wholly for a temperate and respectful discussion of the Holocaust.

You speak as if Obama got 90% of the popular vote, and anyone who opposes him is undemocratic.

I do? I refuse to get chased around by your interpretations of what I wonder about and how I "speak as if". I will forcefully declare that the House Republicans have indeed been undemocratic, they have been disgraceful.

About one third of the voting age population actually voted for Obama. He represents all Americans, and is subject to legal challenges to his policies.

. . . and as Obama has pointedly stated, there is a legislative process available to his opposition that *does not include* subjecting the American people and the American economy and our American reputation/credit to their extortion.

If you want to go down the road of how many people actually voted for Obama, may I remind you that the Republicans got fewer votes in the last election than the Democrats, but retained their majority only because of excruciatingly drawn gerrymandered districts, and George Bush got fewer votes than Al Gore!

As far as I know, the Democrats have never done the exact same fiscal hostage-taking in the history of the Republic.

Oh dear. MSNBC has actually erased your memory. You came of age in the '70s and '80s, so you should remember.

The government shut down seven times when O'Neill was speaker and Reagan was president. And they were real shutdowns, too, given that they occurred after Jimmy Carter's attorney general, Benjamin Civiletti, issued opinions in 1980 and 1981 saying that funding gaps had to lead to at least partial shutdowns of government functions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... shutdowns/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... hey-ended/

I like this response found in your first link:

TOMPAINE4
10/14/2013 7:24 PM EDT
Dylan Matthews point is well taken. Notwithstanding this, there is something to be said for the appearance of civility that existed between President Reagan and Speaker O'Neill. We don't have that now, and it is too bad. But what if Speaker O'Neill had appeared in front of Washington think tanks announcing that his Number One goal was to see President Reagan fail? What if elected officials in Congress and former national party candidates called to impeach President Reagan? What if party-related groups spread rumors that Mr. Reagan wasn't even an American citizen? What if the party's wealthiest donors handed out talking points on what to say after the extremist coup d'état shuts down the government?

In all regards, President Obama has been treated in a disgraceful and disrespectful manner. He has taken the high road and the opponents have all too often operated from the sewer. This diminishes us all.

I like this sentence in your second link:

So the "shutdowns" listed below that happened between 1976 tand 1979 did not always entail an actual stop to government functioning; they were often simply funding gaps that didn't have any real-world effect.

What I do not like, as I viewed all of these shutdowns, is that the Republicans are the ones who executed the long damaging ones under Clinton and Obama. I do not like that this shutdown was more expensive (24 billion) than the entire medical devices tax revenue projections ! that the Republicans were arguing about in the first place.