The Debates

[denjohn]

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/empty-pagentry.html

The press wet its small-clothes over Mitt Romney's ebullience in last Thursday's so-called debate, as these joint interview contests are styled these days. What a jaunty fellow Mitt came off as, compared to poor Mr. Obama, cloaked in presidential gloom, the wearisome woes of high office and all that - or perhaps just some indigestible tidbit served out of Air Force One's galley, .......................
.............. You would think that the question of what we will do about all this might be at issue in the current election - how we might deliberately face the tasks of reorganizing farming, commerce, transportation, banking, schooling, and all the other practical matters of existence. There is an awful lot to talk about, and much to be done, but nobody is interested. Instead, we've mounted a foolish campaign to keep all the old rackets running, and there is no fundamental difference between Mr. Romney and Mr. Obama on that. The empty pageantry of these debates dresses this dangerous madness in the raiment of clowning..............

[Amskeptic]

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/empty-pagentry.html

The press wet its small-clothes over Mitt Romney's ebullience in last Thursday's so-called debate, as these joint interview contests are styled these days. What a jaunty fellow Mitt came off as, compared to poor Mr. Obama, cloaked in presidential gloom, the wearisome woes of high office and all that - or perhaps just some indigestible tidbit served out of Air Force One's galley, .......................
.............. You would think that the question of what we will do about all this might be at issue in the current election - how we might deliberately face the tasks of reorganizing farming, commerce, transportation, banking, schooling, and all the other practical matters of existence. There is an awful lot to talk about, and much to be done, but nobody is interested. Instead, we've mounted a foolish campaign to keep all the old rackets running, and there is no fundamental difference between Mr. Romney and Mr. Obama on that. The empty pageantry of these debates dresses this dangerous madness in the raiment of clowning..............

Very true, the above. Yet, here we are, and we have to try to make incremental changes within the system a little while longer. I gotta hang on my hat on the best choice of the two, however, and I do see a difference between them.
How could Romney have gotten a 5 point boost from one debate? How can the Republicans express such glee when their guy flipped all moderate? Is it because it never was about principled positions for them?
Colin

[Bleyseng]

Principled positions are for losers, this is all about getting elected and winning. Say anything, lie, cheat and steal because when you win all in forgotten!

[glasseye]

Principled positions are for losers, this is all about getting elected and winning. Say anything, lie, cheat and steal because when you win all in forgotten!

Absolutely. "Change you can believe in." Huh? What change?

"Sincerity and honesty are important. Once you can fake those, you've got it made"

who said that? Woody Allen?

[Bleyseng]

The only change I expected Obama to be was not GBush and he met my expectation on that. Obama ended the Iraq war, stopped the US from plummeting into a depression instead a deep recession we are climbing out of in 4 years, killed OSBL, passed Health Care reform, poured stimulus money into Green projects and looked good with his wife and kids on TV.
Not bad...and made me feel good to be a American again.
I can't say I look foward to 4 yrs of Romney/Ryan with increased Military, more intrusion into our personal freedoms including women's vaginas, cutting taxes for the rich and corporations ( what they want Zero taxes next), drill, drill, drill everywhere, less social services for everyone, bigger government (more government programs and cabinets that suck money) and a huge increase in the Federal Deficit.

[yondermtn]

"Change you can believe in." Huh? What change?

[yondermtn]

Ooops, forgot to add my comments.

I feel bamboozled.

[glasseye]

Obama ended the Iraq war, stopped the US from plummeting into a depression instead a deep recession we are climbing out of in 4 years, killed OSBL, passed Health Care reform, poured stimulus money into Green projects and looked good with his wife and kids on TV.

Agreed, all of those points, to a more or less degree. You could have added "speaks in coherent sentences".

However, he sends drones to kill in foreign lands, he hasn't ended the war in Afghanistan, he sent troops to murder OBL for no good reason that I'm aware of, Gitmo is still open, and rampant greed continues to rule both Wall Street and Washington.

He certainly was dealt a very cruddy hand and for that we can forgive him a great deal. We look forward to some real, substantial change in his second term.

[Amskeptic]

Obama ended the Iraq war, stopped the US from plummeting into a depression instead a deep recession we are climbing out of in 4 years, killed OSBL, passed Health Care reform, poured stimulus money into Green projects and looked good with his wife and kids on TV.

Agreed, all of those points, to a more or less degree. You could have added "speaks in coherent sentences".

However, he sends drones to kill in foreign lands, he hasn't ended the war in Afghanistan, he sent troops to murder OBL for no good reason that I'm aware of, Gitmo is still open, and rampant greed continues to rule both Wall Street and Washington.

He certainly was dealt a very cruddy hand and for that we can forgive him a great deal. We look forward to some real, substantial change in his second term.

Let's really understand that our President does not:
a) hire all unemployed Americans
b) set gas prices
c) kill public enemies
d) bankrupt solar companies
e) invite or disinvite guests at Gitmo
f) sleep in downy beds of pure cash

He executes the will of the Congress as dictated by laws and sets an agenda for all of us to get behind or not.

a) he tried to assist in hiring programs - was thwarted by alleged budget constraints
b) tried improve production and increase efficiencies - now thwarted by bogus refinery slowdowns
c) uses drones instead of troops on the ground, a moral dilemma worthy of sensible national debate, but he is clearly deciding in favor of protecting our troops
d) has attempted to move us forward against a despicable hurricane of obstruction by angry old bitter white men whose true patriotism is more evident every day as being fluffy! bullshit
e) he could not close Gitmo when he HAS to rely on others to execute. Every chickenshit governor and congressman in the US said that Gitmo prisoners could not be housed in US prisons. They were afraid that these Middle Eastern taxicab drivers and vegetable sellers and some disaffected young turks who went bad in the black holes of no futures would somehow overcome the fortresses of our maximum security prisons.
f) Obama has not personally profited from Wall Street or corporate largess, like GWB and Dick Cheney absolutely did. He presided over a recovery that I think he hoped would build bipartisan support for his agenda. Yet, all the fat cats whose portfolios have recovered and grown handsomely under his watch, treat him with disdain. He does have to play the money game in order to compete, but he is not an insider. When he leaves the White House, he is gone.

Obama has *HAD* to pander to the worst of our collective agreements. I do not hold it against him. I do expect that he best start kicking ass in his next term.
Colin

[glasseye]

despicable hurricane of obstruction by angry old bitter white men whose true patriotism is more evident every day as being fluffy! bullshit

Fluffy? Bullshit is fluffy? Who knew?

[Bleyseng]

despicable hurricane of obstruction by angry old bitter white men whose true patriotism is more evident every day as being fluffy! bullshit

Fluffy? Bullshit is fluffy? Who knew?

I love your quote!

The new one is Paul Ryan's saying his tax plan is "Revenue Neutral" and will pay for itself!

[dingo]

Obama's major flaw:


"History suggests that few individuals have the courage to risk status and wealth by undermining the social order that bestows their perquisites."

[Sylvester]

despicable hurricane of obstruction by angry old bitter white men whose true patriotism is more evident every day as being fluffy! bullshit

Fluffy? Bullshit is fluffy? Who knew?

I love your quote!

The new one is Paul Ryan's saying his tax plan is "Revenue Neutral" and will pay for itself!

I have heard that before, oh yeah!

"This war will pay for itself."
Paul Wolfowitz, speaking of Iraq

[Bleyseng]

Well, the debates were interesting last night. Biden called out Ryan's rote party line speeches as the lies they are. Nothing new from Ryan other than he has a good memory for his party's supposed "Facts" and couldn't answer the questions put to him in any detail.

[pj]

You know Colin you are right: "despicable hurricane of obstruction by angry old bitter white men whose true patriotism is more evident every day as being fluffy! bullshit."

I saw one last night named Joe, he certainly came across as one of those guys you described above. I'm sure he appealed to the 40 percent of the country who were already going to vote for him and the President. Though I think the idea is to appeal to the other 20 percent who haven't made up their minds, and I believe he failed in that case.

I do hope the President loses, but on the oft chance he wins, I wish him 4 years of robust health, because the backup guy I believe doesn't have the capability to wipe his own ass, let alone lead the country.