Itinerant Air-Cooled

Seriously, we are in great need of a national dialogue regarding gun control and gun rights. I cannot bear to read of these massacres. There is *no* rationalization on Earth for automatic weapons, none. The NRA has blood on its hands, and Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are cowardly in their middling dissembling timorous hand-wringing. Here's an excellent insight brought to you by a citizen of San Angelo Texas in response to an opinion piece in the New York Times:

RafeSan Angelo, TX

Ironically, anyone entering the US Capitol is screened for weapons, and firearms aren't allowed to be carried into the NRA's national meetings. What are these people afraid of, and why would they deny American citizens that same level of protection?

I don't consider any member of Congress or the NRA to be any more valuable or important than people in public areas who may be gunned down by another of these lunatics.

In fact, given the quality of their recent contributions to the common welfare, I would argue that Congress and the NRA are demonstrably less important than almost any other person (and my dog).

Guns don't kill anyone, they require people to operate them. People kill.

There are so many guns loose in this country, any attempt at control would take generations to have an effect.

fully automatic weapons, as suggested above, are not easily bought legally. agree that a semi auto assault rifle should be difficult as well.
i want to see more concealed carry permits. if 1 or 2 c/c people had been in that theater we probably wouldn't have 70 people shot and 12 dead.



this is gun control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtoiCIk2 ... re=related

vdubyah73 wrote:fully automatic weapons, as suggested above, are not easily bought legally. agree that a semi auto assault rifle should be difficult as well.
i want to see more concealed carry permits. if 1 or 2 c/c people had been in that theater we probably wouldn't have 70 people shot and 12 dead.
this is gun control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtoiCIk2 ... re=related

it's hard not to enjoy that video and second that sentiment, though id really like to know how difficult it is to prove your capable enough to carry a weapon before saying we need more people like this.

is there any real justification for a semi-automatic assault rifle to be available for anyone to own/purchase? is hunting the proposed justification for owning such a thing?

as far as our rights to 'bear arms' - I think you have to consider what was the truth about 'arms' in 1791:

Guns in 1791 WOULD

...be made by a gunsmith.
...have rudimentary rifling.
...be single-shot weapons.
...be loaded through the muzzle.
...fire by means of a flintlock.


Guns in 1791 WOULD NOT

...have interchangeable parts. (Popularized in 1798)
...be revolvers. (Invented in 1835)
...be breach-loaded. (Popularized in 1810)
...use smokeless powder. (Invented in 1885)
...use a percussion cap, necessary for modern cartridged bullets. (Invented in 1842)
...load bullets from a clip. (Invented in 1890)



not that you should only be allowed to own 1791 technology, but consider the meaning of the law when looking at weapons like semi-automatic assault rifles.

I keep hearing the argument that, if more people with guns had been in the theater, this wouldn't have been as bad. I don't buy it. This guy was wearing military armor. A few more people with guns in a dark, crowded, chaotic theater would probably have left more injured/dead.

Reid wrote:I keep hearing the argument that, if more people with guns had been in the theater, this wouldn't have been as bad. I don't buy it. This guy was wearing military armor. A few more people with guns in a dark, crowded, chaotic theater would probably have left more injured/dead.

he was wearing a lightly armored vest, but just black clothing and a gas mask otherwise. a clear headshot would have eliminated him quickly, and if early enough into the altercation, a stray single bullet is likely better than 20-50 more fired off intentionally at the crowd. consider also that a shot directly to the chest, even protected, will still knock the wind out of you and leave you disabled for a short period of time.

just playing devils advocate, im not sure id want to be in a theater knowing anyone else had a C/C weapon at their side unless they were some decorated ex special forces type...

I can't believe the answer to a lunatic LEGALLY buying an assault rifle and taking it to a movie theater is to expect other moviegoers to bring their own gun and shoot back. That is absolutely asinine 19th century wild-west John Wayne shoot-em-up bullshit that was taught, ironically, IN THE MOVIES!! That is NOT an answer and I'm sorry if this gets too personal, but anyone purporting such bullshit should be ashamed of themselves. I guaran-fucking-tee you if one of those people in that movie theater was your father/brother/sister/mother/daughter/son you'd change your stupid-ass tune. Someone else's kid can die as long as I can have my God-given right to buy a fucking gun. I hope you people learn your lesson but I fear the only way that will happen is when someone YOU love and hold dear is lying dead on the floor of the most incongruous of places for a shootout, a fucking movie theater. If you take this rant personally, then perhaps you should.

if a lunatic gets it into his/her head that they want to shoot some people they will get guns or make bombs with or without permission from the law. you make guns harder to get for qualified people the bad guys will still get them. hell they might even buy em from eric holders goons.

Gun control only makes things worse. Thought everybody knew that. No excuse not to. For every life possibly saved on a massacre you got to count many more dead in all the other places, guys.

You want to be safer? Want to make better decisions and keep the children safer? Grow up and keep your knee-jerk emotions in check. I, for one, am a US citizen and refuse to be treated as a criminal.

I refuse to believe that the only reason we're as "safe" as we are is because every law-abiding citizen is packing or should be. Bullshit. No one in the theater stood up and shot this guy with the gun they had the permit to carry concealed. He just stopped. From what I read, it was because his assault rifle jammed. That's just fucking karma! The survivors didn't survive because Dirty Harry pulled out his .45 and dropped the guy. If you make it harder for the lunatic to get the gun, he might, just might not get it. There is no downside to making it more difficult to get an assault weapon. And I thought everyone knew THAT! Don't worry, if (and it won't happen, but if) assault weapons are banned, I'm sure there will be a 'grandfather' clause so you won't have to feel like a criminal in your own country.

dtrumbo wrote:I refuse to believe that the only reason we're as "safe" as we are is because every law-abiding citizen is packing or should be. Bullshit.

agreed. not that I think anyone anywhere is actually claiming that to be the absolute reason why we "are as safe as we are" - but to do so would be really really stupid.

making it more difficult for the white privileged mentally unstable and disgruntled young men of this country is a GOOD thing. if that POS had to go find all of this shit on the black market he would have just pussed out and done what the rest of them do - go troll message boards and talk big from behind a keyboard.

Right now I am living in a country with gun control, only the Army carries assault weapons nor can you buy them anywhere. Even a pump shotgun takes tons of paperwork to buy and only for a business owner with lots of cash sales can buy one for security. Handguns can be bought after you take a training course again if you are a business in need of security.
I feel safer walking the streets here at night than I do say in Seattle in Belltown with all the shootings going on there. The USA is gun crazy and its time to atleast ban assault weapons again. Hunters don't hunt with em, nor do you need em for home protection as a shotgun is better for that. The whole idea that if more people had guns someone would have shot this guy is incredible. The fact that he bought these guns legally is what is incredible to the rest of the world. 100 round magazine? What is he going bear hunting or what does anyone other than a Navy Seal/Army Ranger need this for.
Yes, its time to BAN these weapons and make it criminal to own them. Every one should be turned in and melted down plus a 5 year sentence if you keep one. The NRA should have its teeth pulled out politically as it seems to buy every politician we have. Maybe if the gun manufacturers were held responsible in court for these killings and had to pay huge fines they wouldn't sell these guns to the public....I don't know the answers other than its time to BAN them. If you hunt then you can own a hunting rife and for protection a 6 shooter not a 20 round Glock.

You "feel" safer? Are you? I don't know what kind of neighborhood you live and walk in, but the murder rate in Suriname is about 2-1/2 times what it is in the USA, and Suriname is one of the lowest crime rates in the Caribean area.
As Mark Twain pointed out, "We all do all kinds of feeling and mistake it for thinking."
You are the first person I have ever heard say they felt safer in South America. The last person I talked to said it was a mess, as only the bad guys have the guns.
I don't want people's unresearched "feelings" to interfere with my actual safety or rights. If you feel safer being a subject rather than a citizen with rights in some other country, that's fine, but the USA is sacrosanct as far as I'm concerned.
Do you all really think you are going to die in a theatre rampage?

Now...lets talk about banning the first ammendment to keep these crazy right-wing pundits under control, and see how you "feel" about that. It is too, after all, a 200+ year old right, and maybe it is obsolete?

I don't know if less guns or more guns is going to do much to address the larger problem; what the fuck was this guy's motivation? It wasn’t robbery, so was it to make a point-of-view? There is so much noise out there; are random mass-murders what people have do nowadays to be heard over the clutter? Maybe we should stop judging people so damned hard and communicate by asking each other questions. Look at each other in the eyeball and listen.

I have only one thing to point out.

My first wife was killed by a handgun that she owned. Some nutcase stole it from her purse and shot her with it.

Did carrying a gun make her safer, or less safe?