Global Warming, Anyone?

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Amskeptic
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:31 am

denjohn wrote:
Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

Anonymous billionaires donated $120m to more than 100 anti-climate groups working to discredit climate change science
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ks-network
Insidiousness sucks the joy right out of it. Must. Resist.
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by denjohn » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:01 pm

A concise, easy to understand "what climate change is and how dangerous it is" response from Mark Cochrane, who seems to be a very knowledgeable and levelheaded contributor at Chris Martenson's site:
1. Climate = the average range of weather conditions (usually defined using roughly 30 years or more of observations) for any region. Each location (e.g. wherever you live) has typical February temperatures, for example. The common phrase for distinguishing climate from weather is "Climate is what you expect, weather is what you get." The typical February temperatures might range between -20 and 40 degrees (Fahrenheit) with a mean temperature of say 23. Any given day might be 10, -15, 30 or any other temperature, however.

2. Climate change = changes in the average weather conditions such that either or both the mean temperature or the expected range of temperatures is altered. Precipitation ranges and averages change too.

3. Climate has changed all throughout Earth's history. Over many thousands of years the planet cycles between cold periods (ice ages) and warm periods similar to now (interglacials). However, the concern now is that the entire planet is experiencing a change in its average climate conditions that is increasingly warmer. Note, while the average temperature is definitely increasing, this doesn't mean that every location is experiencing the same amount of warming.

4. The polemic surrounds the reason why the planet is warming. If the sun were getting brighter, for example it would warm the planet. The sun is not getting brighter, however, so that cannot be the cause. Anthropogenic Global Climate Change just means that we are causing the changes. This occurs through our release of greenhouse gases (primarily Carbon dioxide) through activities like burning fossil fuels (oil, coal, natural gas).

5. Greenhouse gases are just gases that are transparent to sunlight but that are not transparent to longer wavelength heat radiation. The effect is like having an increasingly heavy blanket over the planet. Energy (heat) comes in as sunlight but takes longer to escape much like a coat keeps your heat from escaping your body as fast during a cold winter's day.

6. The problem is that the greenhouse gas effect builds every year and we cannot stop it (no way to take the extra blanket/coat off). Naturally, things would recover but will take hundreds to thousands of years after we stop our fossil fuel emissions. Even if we stopped all emissions today, the planet would warm for at least 200 years.

7. It is a huge problem because of both the magnitude of the change and the speed with which it is occurring. If we stay on the 'Business as usual' path of increasing emissions we will warm the planet by 5-6 C (9-11 F) by the end of the century. That doesn't sound too big but when we are talking about changes for the entire planet it is an immense amount of energy. This is the same average change in temperature as we have experienced from the depths of the last ice age until today. Normally those changes would take a few thousand years to occur, we are managing it in one hundred years.

8. All life on Earth depends upon the climate. Everything is where it is now because it is adapted to the typical climate of that location. We are currently causing climate changes that will force all life to adjust to new conditions but it is not adapted to changes that occur this quickly so no one knows exactly what will occur but estimates are that up to half of all species may not make it (extinction).

9. All of recorded human history since the advent of agriculture and writing has occurred within a narrow temperature band. The difference between the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age was only 1 C different across the planet (average temperature). We are currently headed into warmer global temperatures than any human or even humanoid has experienced.

10. We are literally changing the planet and all of human society will have to adapt (or die), just like every other species.

If you or anyone else wants to learn more come on over to the Definitive Global Climate Change thread http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/def ... 1#comments . All are welcome (skeptics too!) to engage on civil discussion and ask questions that are general or specific in nature.
Peace
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Spezialist » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:11 pm


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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Spezialist » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:38 am

In the past I've heard the excuse that we could all die at any moment from a meteorite impact.
Well I actually looked into that and it looks like we could survive -13 KV for a year and continue our lifstyle after, although it would be difficult.
But somehow we won't survive this global warming deal?
What a trip.

-13kv = -260 f

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Bleyseng
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Bleyseng » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:22 am

interesting reading at the blog:
"So it is rational to ask the leadership when they will peek through the blur of domination into the planet around them. When will private interests give way to the needs of the nation and her people? When will the wrath of dubious supply chain mythologies enlighten the eyes of our corporate citizens? When will government drop political party rhetoric and get to work?"
lots of drivel too......
Geoff
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Amskeptic
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:59 pm

Bleyseng wrote:interesting reading at the blog:
"So it is rational to ask the leadership when they will peek through the blur of domination into the planet around them. When will private interests give way to the needs of the nation and her people?
=D>
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Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by bradleygt » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:30 am

surprised all you scientists missed this one- maybe even moot at this point- any ice melt wont raise the sea level an inch, watch how your dq soda overflows when its ice is melting to 'see' how it works
an ounce of prevention is waaay more than a pound of cure

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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Abscate » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:11 pm

Its a common misconception that ice melts dump water into the oceans and cause them to rise, but you won't find scientists saying this.

Thermal expanisivty of water (complex, actually) about 100 ppm
Mean depth 10,000 feet.
So one Kelvin rise in temp means 1 meter of water rise.
Thats beyond catastrophic.

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JLT
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by JLT » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:07 pm

bradleygt wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:30 am
surprised all you scientists missed this one- maybe even moot at this point- any ice melt wont raise the sea level an inch, watch how your dq soda overflows when its ice is melting to 'see' how it works
To test this hypothesis, I put some water into a glass with ice in it, and marked the level. When the ice melted, the level didn't change.

Then I put more ice into that same glass, with that same water. Guess what happened?
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Amskeptic
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Thu May 09, 2019 7:50 am

bradleygt wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:30 am
surprised all you scientists missed this one- maybe even moot at this point- any ice melt wont raise the sea level an inch, watch how your dq soda overflows when its ice is melting to 'see' how it works

Careful there ... "you" statements often backfire. For example, everything I have read of good scientific research takes into account the ice that has already calved and is represented in the current sea level, and the ice that is migrating off the continental land mass adding to the glass. It is easy enough to determine the amount of water trapped on Greenland's and Antarctica's land mass, and when it makes it to your glass of water, yes, we have a problem.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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tommu
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Re: Global Warming, Anyone?

Post by tommu » Thu May 09, 2019 10:34 am

bradleygt wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:30 am
surprised all you scientists missed this one- maybe even moot at this point- any ice melt wont raise the sea level an inch, watch how your dq soda overflows when its ice is melting to 'see' how it works
OMG. GENIUS

I heard that things expand when they warm up and that Ice melts off LAND into the sea. Tell me that's bollocks too? I want to believe.

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