George Zimmerman

[BellePlaine]

Setting aside the racially charged atmosphere surrounding this tragic event, I don’t understand how Zimmerman can logically claim self-defense after he initiated the conflict by stalking Martin. That’s not defense, that’s offence.

[airkooledchris]

justification is a hell of a drug. people allow themselves to be clouded by it daily.

[BellePlaine]

justification is a hell of a drug. people allow themselves to be clouded by it daily.

Sounds to me like Zimmerman was trying to justify his self-appointed neighborhood watch title. Why hasn't he been charged? He killed someone who wasn't a threat and didn't start the fight. Too me, the whole thing about whether or not Martin broke Zimmerman's nose or if he smashed his head against the cement, it doesn't matter one bit because Zimmerman started the fight and continued the fight. To plead self-defense, he's going to have to prove that he was an unwilling participant and that was clearly not the case.

[Amskeptic]

justification is a hell of a drug. people allow themselves to be clouded by it daily.

I'm still trying to resolve the apparent lack of injuries in the police video footage to the supposed "vicious beating and bloody scalp and grass-stained jacket" as written in the police report.
Colin
(don't like all of this gun-totage . . . not because I WANT TO TAKE AWAY PEOPLE'S RIGHTS , but because there are a lot of k.n.u.c.k.l.e. h.e.a.d.s out there who, almost by definition, do not know that they are not really equipped to make fast decisions in a difficult circumstance)

[BellePlaine]

justification is a hell of a drug. people allow themselves to be clouded by it daily.

I'm still trying to resolve the apparent lack of injuries in the police video footage to the supposed "vicious beating and bloody scalp and grass-stained jacket" as written in the police report.
Colin
(don't like all of this gun-totage . . . not because I WANT TO TAKE AWAY PEOPLE'S RIGHTS , but because there are a lot of k.n.u.c.k.l.e. h.e.a.d.s out there who, almost by definition, do not know that they are not really equipped to make fast decisions in a difficult circumstance)

The Pro-permit-to-carry crowd should get out ahead of this thing before the oppostition makes Zimmerman their poster child. Personal protection doesn't mean allowing gun-carrying screwballs to go around playing neighborhood watch hero.

[pj]

"He killed someone who wasn't a threat and didn't start the fight. Too me, the whole thing about whether or not Martin broke Zimmerman's nose or if he smashed his head against the cement, it doesn't matter one bit because Zimmerman started the fight and continued the fight. To plead self-defense, he's going to have to prove that he was an unwilling participant and that was clearly not the case."

If I am ever standing in front of a jury, for something I'm accused of, please raise your hand and let me know. You seem to have a lot of the facts in this case, from your perch in Minnesota, and seemed to have already convicted him. In my case, I'd like to point out to the judge here in WA., that perhaps you are a bit too eager to pre-judge my guilt based on various television/radio/websites you may partake in.

I bet you have heard about NBC going back now and reviewing their selective editing on the 911 call. Of course that doesn't matter to you, cause you're ready to throw the switch, kick out the chair, or draw a bead on his heart, cause he's guilty as sin and he's got to pay. Well as far as one guy in Minnesota thinks.

For me, I'm going to wait and see what the system does, as imperfect as it is, everyone should get their day in court in front of their peers.

[BellePlaine]

"He killed someone who wasn't a threat and didn't start the fight. Too me, the whole thing about whether or not Martin broke Zimmerman's nose or if he smashed his head against the cement, it doesn't matter one bit because Zimmerman started the fight and continued the fight. To plead self-defense, he's going to have to prove that he was an unwilling participant and that was clearly not the case."

If I am ever standing in front of a jury, for something I'm accused of, please raise your hand and let me know. You seem to have a lot of the facts in this case, from your perch in Minnesota, and seemed to have already convicted him. In my case, I'd like to point out to the judge here in WA., that perhaps you are a bit too eager to pre-judge my guilt based on various television/radio/websites you may partake in.

I bet you have heard about NBC going back now and reviewing their selective editing on the 911 call. Of course that doesn't matter to you, cause you're ready to throw the switch, kick out the chair, or draw a bead on his heart, cause he's guilty as sin and he's got to pay. Well as far as one guy in Minnesota thinks.

For me, I'm going to wait and see what the system does, as imperfect as it is, everyone should get their day in court in front of their peers.

Dad? Is that you?

I'm not listening to NBC, I've been in Chile for the past week. I'm asking questions. I just want to understand why someone can claim they acted in defense after they had initiated the events by stalking someone, which I’d take as a threat. Zimmerman is going to have to prove that he broke off his threat after the 911 opperator told him to stop. How did he let Martin know that he was no longer a threat? Did he say “Hey, I’m out of here. I’m leaving.” I’d like to hear some evidence. Even if he did retreat and made it clear that he was no longer a threat, he still is irresponsible for going on the offence (stalking) while carrying a gun. I think that pro-personal protection folks might have a problem if people think that they can play hero while armed and then call it self-defense if they get themselves into trouble.

[ruckman101]

Zimmerman has yet to be charged with a crime as far as I know, so what day in court pj?

People are too eager to pull that trigger. To play judge jury and executioner goes against our legal system. Petty crimes rarely carry a death sentence, except at the hands of fellow citizens.

This is one reason I don't believe in guns. They escalate the violence. Instead of assault, we now have murder. The situation is tragic all the way around.

When folks lined up to enlist for the armed services after 9/11, my Vietnam vet coworker opined that if they had ever had to kill anyone, they wouldn't be in that line. Guns are not video games. Violence hurts the perpetrators, too.


neal

[airkooledchris]

If Zimmerman isn't charged, then every young black man in Florida should start carrying a weapon.

How else can they 'Stand their ground' when the next nutbag Zimmerman comes tailing behind them?


Personally, I don't see a reason to carry anything above pepper spray or an extending baton for actual "defense".

[Amskeptic]

If I am ever standing in front of a jury, for something I'm accused of, please raise your hand and let me know. You seem to have a lot of the facts in this case, from your perch in Minnesota, and seemed to have already convicted him. In my case, I'd like to point out to the judge here in WA., that perhaps you are a bit too eager to pre-judge my guilt based on various television/radio/websites you may partake in.


For me, I'm going to wait and see what the system does, as imperfect as it is, everyone should get their day in court in front of their peers.

Yeah, don't you wish he WOULD have a day in court? That is what people are upset about, he's off scott-free, for something that HAS been documented. Nor I or anyone else here has rendered judgment/verdict, but we are challenging the evidence in preliminary. That is OK.
Colin

[Lanval]

I've read the uproar in terms of the way the police handled it; "Yep, he said it was self-defense, so there you go." Given what we know of the incident, it's hard for most people, I think, to understand how a young man ended up dead. So they feel like Zimmerman ought to be under a bit more of a microscope, rather than the 'brush-off' the police gave the killing initially.

The racial aspect simply makes this seem like one more episode of racist fear encoded in society. Read Black Men and Public Space by Brent Staples if you want a sense of how African-Americans might see Zimmerman's actions.

Here: http://www.phuhs.org/downloads/Reading% ... 0Texts.pdf

Best,

Michael L

[RussellK]

The Pro-permit-to-carry crowd should get out ahead of this thing before the oppostition makes Zimmerman their poster child. Personal protection doesn't mean allowing gun-carrying screwballs to go around playing neighborhood watch hero.

Why not. The NRA had made the likes of Zimmerman and his ilk their poster child for years. I dropped my membership years ago because of their glorification of using guns for defense. Fact is fear and guns are a bad mix. You reap what you sow.

[glasseye]

Zimmerman claims life-threatening injuries. Easily verifiable, yet no such attempt to do so is apparent.

Why not?

Really. Why the $%*# NOT? How is this even possible?

[BellePlaine]

The Pro-permit-to-carry crowd should get out ahead of this thing before the oppostition makes Zimmerman their poster child. Personal protection doesn't mean allowing gun-carrying screwballs to go around playing neighborhood watch hero.

Why not. The NRA had made the likes of Zimmerman and his ilk their poster child for years. I dropped my membership years ago because of their glorification of using guns for defense. Fact is fear and guns are a bad mix. You reap what you sow.

I agree that emotions and guns are a bad mix. Not the NRA, but the Personal Protection folks teach (in Minnesota) that three things have to be in place for you to justify using lethal force in the name of self-defense. 1) You have to be an unwilling participant. Meaning you can't play hero and look for trouble. 2) Your life has to be threatened. You can't kill your rapist if they haven't shown you a weapon. And 3) no lesser force will do. If you can run, run.

These three circumstances are designed to take away the emotion when deciding to pull the trigger. That’s why it’s so important to know if Zimmerman was walking towards Martin or walking away towards his car. From the 911 call, it sounds to me like Martin was confronting Zimmerman asking “why are you following me?” and Zimmerman was re-engaging in the fight saying “what are you doing here?” If Zimmerman was walking towards Martin, then they were both willing participants which removes Zimmerman claim for self-defense.

The Permit to Carry crowd needs to use this event as a teaching moment. Either as what not to do, or what to do. If it turns out that Zimmerman changed course from walking towards his car to approach Martin, then they’d better highlight this as a mistake because at that moment you’ve got two guys heading for fight and one of them has a gun.

[Amskeptic]

it’s so important to know if Zimmerman was walking towards Martin or walking away towards his car. From the 911 call, it sounds to me like Martin was confronting Zimmerman asking “why are you following me?” and Zimmerman was re-engaging in the fight saying “what are you doing here?” If Zimmerman was walking towards Martin, then they were both willing participants which removes Zimmerman claim for self-defense.

This is where the inadequate scope of a stupid law becomes glaringly apparent. How on Earth are we to distinguish motive?
If I was afraid that I was being followed, you bet I would reach the point where I had to turn and face my stalker. What is the motive here, jury?

That kid, no way no how was in the mood for a fight that night. Zimmerman clearly was.
Do you get that, jury?

Walking towards, walking away . . . have you seen cornered prey? They finally do the Hail Mary attack. The mouse lunges for the cat, the gazelle turns around and hoofs the lion, is that when the dumbassmotherfuckersonabitchesgunlovinnutcasetestosteronemorons get their "self-defense' for the likes of Zimmerman to pounce on the concealed Skittles carrying kid in a hoody?

Do you think the confrontations between angry morons and scared kids will include "gee, which way am I supposed to walk here?"

We have some high profile shootings lately, some very near churches and schools, kids dying! Funny that, how the people who feel bad about themselves way deep down, go the fringes of places that promise goodness and hope, and they spray bullets.
Colin