Penn State - Joe Paterno

[Velokid1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/opini ... d=fb-share

[RussellK]

Maybe David Brooks had a Monday deadline to meet or maybe David Brooks has a personal history he's trying to work through but citing the holocaust and Rwanda as examples of humans not getting involved and comparing that to the Penn State abuse case is apples to bananas. I don't believe there were child abuse hotlines available in either Germany or Rwanda.

I think what Brooks is interpreting as feeling superior is the natural reaction of people asking themselves how does this happen and looking inwardly at what would they do. Most people think of themselves as doing the right thing and most people do. That's why the hotlines work. The bottom line is the adults involved, McQueary, Paterno and company failed at gut check time. Acknowledging that doesn't make me feel superior, just kind of sad.

[Velokid1]

Interesting. I guess I didn't put as much weight on the title of the piece. I know that often the editors assign the titles to a piece, and the titles don't always accurately reflect the content. At any rate, I didn't interpret the article to be so much about embracing our feelings of superiority as it was about embracing our sense of humility. I think it's healthy to admit that none of us really knows how we would react in a situation until we are actually in that situation. And even more important when we are casting judgment on others, we can never be sure of what the majority of people would, could, or should do in a particular situation. I mean, child sexual abuse may be a hot button issue for you, as it is for me, so you and I can say (and know in our hearts... at least we think) that without a doubt we would have crushed that guy's skull up against the shower wall that day, but there are lots and lots of people who are in much more of a gray area, though they don't know it.

I am out of time which will save me from rambling, but you get my main point. Humility. The complexities of life and of our own minds and hearts.

A period of severe clinical depression in my early 20s really shed light on our "not knowing what we would do in a given situation."

Good day-

[RussellK]

Lets hope that an outcome of this is a greater awareness and a mental readiness to call out when we see transgressions.

[Velokid1]

It's a tough one for me because I tend to think that I would be TOO bold in many of those kinds of situations. (Which is probably obvious given my comment about smashing a skull against shower walls.) Someone in my hometown of Bloomington, Indiana was shot and killed a couple months ago when he ran outside of the pizza place where he worked to stop someone from breaking into a car. Father of three, probably been in a few fist fights in his younger days, figured he'd go out there and teach the thief a lesson. I would have run out there and done the same thing, and would have been shot, too.

I do think Colin is right that the most effective way to combat abuse isn't to focus solely on punishment of offenders but to teach/show kids (and others) that they do not have to tolerate anyone putting them in an uncomfortable situation. Tough given our culture that teaches that subordination is actually NOBLE in many situations... in the military, when you encounter a policeman, etc.

[DoubleNickle]

I worked with child abuse victims when I was a young man (two summers and then 4yrs full time). The long term trauma was too much for me to handle for very long. I can honestly say if I were in the witness's position there would have been no question.... Sandusky would have been seriously injured or killed. If it happened today now that I am older and wiser I can say he'd just be seriously injured. He was destined to be the heir apparent to the throne at Penn State and suddenly retired in 1999.... curious. I hear today there's 10 more people coming forward (potential victims)... I fear the sesspool is deep and there are lots of people that should have trouble sleeping at night for lack of action. 55

[TrollFromDownBelow]

I have/had followed this story with curiosity. Who failed who? Did the system fail Paterno, or did Paterno fail the system? When I attended Michigan State, the University had it's own DPS ... those folks had the same authority as regular police officers. Say McQueary did as said he did; told his boss, and also said to him that authorities (could have been the campus police) were notified. Paterno notifies the AD, assumes the authorities were notified; takes away Sandusky's keys. Job done, Right? Let due process take it's course, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, etc. However, as someone else noted; if Sandusky suddenly 'retired' in 1999, and this was a cover-up of a cover-up, then totally agree, that Paterno is definitely part of the problem.

I wonder which scenario is closer to the truth, or if there is a third option.

[Amskeptic]

if Sandusky suddenly 'retired' in 1999, and this was a cover-up of a cover-up, then totally agree, that Paterno is definitely part of the problem.

I wonder which scenario is closer to the truth, or if there is a third option.

I think this is it. Winning! At! All! Costs!

[Velokid1]

I have the same hunch. In the football world, not being willing to win at all costs makes you a coward and a traitor.

[Amskeptic]

I have the same hunch. In the football world, not being willing to win at all costs makes you a coward and a traitor.

P.S. Where does David Brooks get off with a title like "Let's All Feel Superior" ??

Do we have to be inundated with scorn and judgment should we offer that we would (or would like to think that we would) deal with the shower scenario differently? Does David Brook not allow that there are people seriously different than him? Why should they have to be saddled with his judgmentalism as well as deal with such a traumatic experience?
Colin

[Velokid1]

I agree that the title of the article is crap. I maintain that the point he is making is something every human being interested in increasing their ability to self-reflect should take into consideration.

[ruckman101]

Impossible. If we all felt superior, there wouldn't be anyone feeling inferior to feel superior to.


neal

[Velokid1]

Very few of us truly FEEL superior; but we sure are good at ACTING like we feel superior. Usually our superiority complex is just a smokescreen meant to obscure for others just how inferior we believe ourselves to be.

Or... We are all born awesome but we believe ourselves to he dipshits so we pretend to believe ourselves to be infallible to hide the fact that we believe we are dipshits.

Or... As my hippie deadhead friend told me the other day... "Smile, you lovely fucker! Life is GRAND!".

[Amskeptic]

Or... As my hippie deadhead friend told me the other day... "Smile, you lovely fucker! Life is GRAND!".

To which I am quite sure I would reply, "don't want to, but feel free to."

[ruckman101]

Feelings of superiority engender sensibilities of dominion. It's an enabler for those prone to atrocious acts. "Just a stupid animal." "Just a stupid pagan." "Just the poor." "Just a (fill in the blank)."


neal