Page 2 of 3
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:41 am
by Amskeptic
TrollFromDownBelow wrote:Folks -
From the snippets I read, the workers felt that they really didn't need a union - who are we to second guess? If VW really wants a union, they will put their next plant in the rust belt somewhere.
From the books I have read, there is a fascinating bit of self-destructiveness lurking in many of us where we vote against not only our self-interests, but against our collective interest as well, in the name of ingratiating ourselves to those who we consider to be "successful". Lower income Republicans have been voting solidly against their own interests in some touching hopeful sop to the day their lottery ticket hits it big.
I was a participant in a non-union HVAC company when the Teamsters tried to hand out literature for our perusal. I did not see much critical or personal thought in the violent refusal to consider the possible benefits of union representation, so blindly subservient were we to toadying up to our beneficent company leaders. Why, we were were competing
against each other to see who could gain more favor in the eyes of the boss with the vociferousness of our refusal to think. Meanwhile, we had one unpaid week vacation our first year, two unpaid week's vacation up to three years, one paid and one unpaid week's vacation up to five years, two paid weeks from five to eight years, and three weeks paid vacation after eight years.
We were (NOT rednecks blah blah blah, Hippiewannabee) human beings trying to survive and call the situation as we saw it (the not-necessarily thought-out collective opinion was, better to stick with the known). And this is the way it is all around the country. There is profound misinformation being pumped out there by nefarious forces, and I just read this morning that the University of Florida accepted millions of dollars from the Koch brothers to endow their economics department with the following caveat: Charles Koch had to have hire/fire rights.
Tampa Bay Times
A conservative billionaire who opposes government meddling in business has bought a rare commodity: the right to interfere in faculty hiring at a publicly funded university. A foundation bankrolled by businessman Charles G. Koch has pledged $1.5 million for positions in Florida State University's economics department. In return, his representatives get to screen and sign off on any hires promoting "political economy and free enterprise."
(Troll, I am making this point for our resident business champion)
You may say, Hippiewannabe, "hey, he earned the right to hire/fire at a public university if he paid into it", and I say it is another nail in the coffin of integrity and the future of this country. You may piteously declare that I "excoriate the rich" and you would be so damn wrong.
I excoriate scumbags who may happen to be rich.
Colin
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:49 am
by Bleyseng
From Robert Reich today...
"The Supreme Court is doing its best to ensure that Thomas Piketty’s prediction of an America based ever more on privilege comes to be. After having removed almost all constraints on political spending by the rich – overriding the political decision of a majority of Americans whose representatives had voted in favor of such limits – the Court yesterday decided that a majority of voters can ban affirmative action in higher education.
In other words, when the Court wants to protect a minority of billionaires, it can overrule a majority of voters. But it respects a majority that rides roughshod over a minority still suffering the consequences of racial discrimination. In a 58-page dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor had it right:
While the Constitution “does not guarantee minority groups victory in the political process, it does guarantee them meaningful and equal access to that process. It guarantees that the majority may not win by stacking the political process against minority groups permanently.”
This Court is stacking the political process against the poor and middle class and in favor of the rich. That is disgraceful."
More GOP bullshit that favors the Rich while cloaking itself in supposed Bullshit of "Freedom". Same crap the Nazis did in the '30's.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:07 am
by Amskeptic
Bleyseng wrote:
More GOP bullshit that favors the Rich while cloaking itself in supposed Bullshit of "Freedom". Same crap the Nazis did in the '30's.
Each victory emboldens them.
Their contempt for the American citizen is almost deserved.
This midterm election coming up is going to be a watershed moment for the gathering forces of :
popular protest?
brazen consolidation of plutocratic influence?
ColinStayTuned
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:53 am
by Bleyseng
Amskeptic wrote:Bleyseng wrote:
More GOP bullshit that favors the Rich while cloaking itself in supposed Bullshit of "Freedom". Same crap the Nazis did in the '30's.
Each victory emboldens them.
Their contempt for the American citizen is almost deserved.
This midterm election coming up is going to be a watershed moment for the gathering forces of :
popular protest?
brazen consolidation of plutocratic influence?
ColinStayTuned
Hmm, you can substitute for
American citizen Venezuelan citizen or one of the other countries that are suppressed right now by Rich elites. Crap, even Suriname as the BS is flying in preparation for next years elections along with lots of palm greasing. I just can't bring myself to stick out my palm to receive some "sweet" as they call under the table money here. The Rich ruling class made up a Drug Dealers is in full election mode.
Will the mid west states wake up to elect more Democrats to turn the Congress to the Dems? I have given up hope on the South as IMHO they have no clue and are lemmings being led off a cliff. Where are all the women voters are their rights ie abortion, wage equality are being restricted or laughed at by the GOP publicly.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:52 pm
by Amskeptic
Bleyseng wrote:Where are all the women voters are their rights ie abortion, wage equality are being restricted or laughed at by the GOP publicly.
Yes. We can hope . . . now that they are majority breadwinners in today's American family. I'll be out here in the country doing my part, patiently, quietly, conversationally.
"Hi, I need a room, one person, one night, sort of like one person, one vote, except of course, if you are stinking rich, are you stinking rich? I doubt it working here, there's an election coming up, please vote and call your relatives and friends in Ohio and Florida and tell them to vote too, yes, I need a wake-up call, we all do."
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:35 pm
by TrollFromDownBelow
Bleyseng wrote:"Would it be interesting to know why the workers voted it down? absolutely."
I thought this was made clear. Scare tactics, massive media mis-information by the GOP government is the reason. Do I think that this really had a influence on the voting, damn right as it works in most of the southern states.
Is it clear that a lot of scare tactics by the GOP were made? Yup. Did it influence the vote? I personally don't know...nor do i think anyone knows for sure. I'm a hard numbers kinda guy...would want to see correlation. What would be interesting to see if the folks who voted could say emphatically yes or no that it affected their vote.
Case in point, last presidential election we had six referendums to vote on here in MI (that's a lot for our state) some of them well funded, yet folks resoundingly voted many of them down and voted their conscience, not what was blaring over the TV or the radio.
It comes down to that most people adversely against change, and more likely to vote for the devil they know vs. the one they don't. Workers probably looked around them and felt they had it better than their neighbors and voted to keep the status quo.
Could have they got a 'better deal' with union representation? Potentially. If a 'better deal' is dealing with strictly compensation then the answer is more than likely; but there may be intangibles that they have now, that they would lost that they also value more than a slightly fatter paycheck.
On a different tangent from this same topic.... it scares the stuffing out me that someone could 'buy' influence into the hiring/firing of educators/researchers of a public university. To me, that is one of our last bastions of true, unfettered free thinking and free speech. We need 'thought leaders' and they will only come where there are many view points to be expressed.
Just this past weekend my family went and toured a public university that my daughter is considering. I totally got infused with the energy and diversity of the place....I want my daughter to have that opportunity to go to a learning institution that is diverse, free thinking, and provides her many venues to choose from....not one that has a monolithic thought process.
Cheers,
Mike
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:11 am
by Amskeptic
TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
it scares the stuffing out me that someone could 'buy' influence into the hiring/firing of educators/researchers of a public university. To me, that is one of our last bastions of true, unfettered free thinking and free speech. We need 'thought leaders' and they will only come where there are many view points to be expressed.
Cheers,
Mike
=D> =D>
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:25 pm
by Bleyseng
Amskeptic wrote:TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
it scares the stuffing out me that someone could 'buy' influence into the hiring/firing of educators/researchers of a public university. To me, that is one of our last bastions of true, unfettered free thinking and free speech. We need 'thought leaders' and they will only come where there are many view points to be expressed.
Cheers,
Mike
=D> =D>
It scares me even more that the GOP/Koch Bros are buying the Supreme Court, Governors, Senators and Congressmen.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:03 pm
by hippiewannabe
TrollFromDownBelow wrote:..On a different tangent from this same topic.... it scares the stuffing out me that someone could 'buy' influence into the hiring/firing of educators/researchers of a public university. To me, that is one of our last bastions of true, unfettered free thinking and free speech. We need 'thought leaders' and they will only come where there are many view points to be expressed.
Just this past weekend my family went and toured a public university that my daughter is considering. I totally got infused with the energy and diversity of the place....I want my daughter to have that opportunity to go to a learning institution that is diverse, free thinking, and provides her many venues to choose from....not one that has a monolithic thought process..
If only that were true. I have been in the audience on campus hoping to hear a speaker who happened to be a little to the right of Mao, but the diverse, free thinking liberals decided his voice should not be heard, and shouted him down and off the stage.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:53 am
by Bleyseng
You are sure they were liberals and not just assholes? But then these days who wants to hear from a communist...heaven forbid we listen to that!
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:12 am
by Amskeptic
hippiewannabe wrote:
If only that were true. I have been in the audience on campus hoping to hear a speaker who happened to be a little to the right of Mao, but the diverse, free thinking liberals decided his voice should not be heard, and shouted him down and off the stage.
Is this your personal experience? Which school? When did it happen? Who was going to speak?
Colin
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:49 am
by hippiewannabe
Amskeptic wrote:hippiewannabe wrote:
If only that were true. I have been in the audience on campus hoping to hear a speaker who happened to be a little to the right of Mao, but the diverse, free thinking liberals decided his voice should not be heard, and shouted him down and off the stage.
Is this your personal experience? Which school? When did it happen? Who was going to speak?
Colin
My last personal campus experience was University of Michigan graduate school, October, 1985. Then Vice President Bush was to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Peace Corps, by giving a speech from the same spot in front of the student union where JFK announced it. I'm assuming it would have praised both the Peace Corps and JFK. But I and the thousands of others instead heard only how the U.S. needed to get out of El Salvador. They got their message across to him, the media and everyone else. Had they then had the decency and respect to shut up and let him speak, they might have gathered more interest and sympathy for their cause. You can find continuing and worsening occurrences through Google.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:17 pm
by Bleyseng
A little to the right of Mao! Sheee..it, about a far to the right as the Grand Canyon is wide......
But I do hate hecklers at events shouting down everyone to blurt out their message as if it's only the only message worthy of being spoken.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:23 am
by TrollFromDownBelow
I was thinking more along the lines of the professors my daughter will deal with on a one-on-one basis, and the other students she will meet more so than guest speakers. I can guarantee you the professors I had Michigan State University's B school were of a free market mind set, limited gov't intervention, etc. Even more so the prof's I had at DePaul for my MBA
The prof's I had for my gen ed English and social science classes were of a more liberal mindset.
Re: Volkswagen US May Demand Union
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:43 am
by Bleyseng
TrollFromDownBelow wrote: I can guarantee you the professors I had Michigan State University's B school were of a free market mind set, limited gov't intervention, etc.
Tea Partyer's or Koch Bros lacky's...
I have always been on the side of controlled Capitalism as it has been born out again and again that in "Free Market Capitalism" it just means those with most of the economic pie take more of the pie and screw the rest.
Government intervention is about leveling the playing field so that there is no one exploiting the rest for their own gain. Look at what the EPA has done to control pollution and esp, smog. I remember the days in Seattle where you could hardly stand to go outside it was so bad but the sunset were a incredible reddish hue. I also remember the days when the salmon run into the locks you could damn near walk across the salmon in the water. Who remembers "Silent Spring"? As I can recall when there were very few eagles left do to spraying.