Swivel foot adjusters
- satchmo
- Old School!
- Location: Crosby, MN
- Status: Offline
Swivel foot adjusters
I didn't find any information here on swivel foot adjusters, so I thought I would post a few pictures.
Most folks agree that swivel foot adjusters are a worthwhile upgrade, particularly when compared to the poor quality of new aftermarket adjusters that tend to wear or mushroom at the tip over time. The swivel foot also reduces side loading on the valve stem and lessens valve guide wear significantly.
There are two types of swivel foot adjusters: Pinto style and Porsche style. The Porsche style are also called 'Elephant Foot' adjusters. The reason why is obvious in the photo below. Pintos on the left and Porsches on the right.
Pinto swivel foot adjusters are much less expensive than the Porsche style, plus they have that nifty oiling hole in the shaft, so you may be tempted to use them. Don't. That little swiveling ball is known to occasionally dislodge from its socket and, as you can imagine, may cause major problems.
Unfortunately, changing to swivel foot adjusters is not a direct swap in for the stock style. The adjuster thread is only 8mm, so it must be used with rocker arms that are 8mm (from the 72-74 bus engine, I think). Additionally, the swivel foot requires significantly more space between the rocker arm and the valve stem. To get this space you need to do two things:
First, you have to grind off a little bit of the rocker arm. This photo shows the stock rocker arm on the left and the ground rocker arm on the right. Although it is hard to tell, only the surface facing the valve stem is ground down enough to be level with the shoulder of the arm. Sorry the photo is a little blurry.
The other thing you need to do to gain more clearance is elevate the rocker shaft. This can be done with an appropriate sized washer under the rocker shaft stands. I can't tell you how thick the washer should be. You will decide how thick it should be as you reset your rocker arm geometry.
The appropriate sized washer will lead to perfect alignment (a straight line) from the valve stem through the adjuster screw when the valve is at half lift. The following photo shows the swivel foot adjusters in place (ignore the rusty nut - it was temporary). The adjuster furthest away shows proper geometry with good alignment of the adjuster and valve stem at half lift position.
Valve adjustment is a little more difficult after you make the change since there are two fairly large flat surfaces on each side of the feeler blade, but you get used to it. In fact. I think valve adjustment becomes more precise because of the larger surface areas.
Tim
Most folks agree that swivel foot adjusters are a worthwhile upgrade, particularly when compared to the poor quality of new aftermarket adjusters that tend to wear or mushroom at the tip over time. The swivel foot also reduces side loading on the valve stem and lessens valve guide wear significantly.
There are two types of swivel foot adjusters: Pinto style and Porsche style. The Porsche style are also called 'Elephant Foot' adjusters. The reason why is obvious in the photo below. Pintos on the left and Porsches on the right.
Pinto swivel foot adjusters are much less expensive than the Porsche style, plus they have that nifty oiling hole in the shaft, so you may be tempted to use them. Don't. That little swiveling ball is known to occasionally dislodge from its socket and, as you can imagine, may cause major problems.
Unfortunately, changing to swivel foot adjusters is not a direct swap in for the stock style. The adjuster thread is only 8mm, so it must be used with rocker arms that are 8mm (from the 72-74 bus engine, I think). Additionally, the swivel foot requires significantly more space between the rocker arm and the valve stem. To get this space you need to do two things:
First, you have to grind off a little bit of the rocker arm. This photo shows the stock rocker arm on the left and the ground rocker arm on the right. Although it is hard to tell, only the surface facing the valve stem is ground down enough to be level with the shoulder of the arm. Sorry the photo is a little blurry.
The other thing you need to do to gain more clearance is elevate the rocker shaft. This can be done with an appropriate sized washer under the rocker shaft stands. I can't tell you how thick the washer should be. You will decide how thick it should be as you reset your rocker arm geometry.
The appropriate sized washer will lead to perfect alignment (a straight line) from the valve stem through the adjuster screw when the valve is at half lift. The following photo shows the swivel foot adjusters in place (ignore the rusty nut - it was temporary). The adjuster furthest away shows proper geometry with good alignment of the adjuster and valve stem at half lift position.
Valve adjustment is a little more difficult after you make the change since there are two fairly large flat surfaces on each side of the feeler blade, but you get used to it. In fact. I think valve adjustment becomes more precise because of the larger surface areas.
Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
- RSorak 71Westy
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Memphis, TN
- Contact:
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Re: Swivel foot adjusters
I have the EMPI elephants foot version on my type 1 bus engine for the past 15K miles or so and they've been doing great.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.
- Sylvester
- Bad Old Puddy Tat.
- Location: Sylvester, Georgia
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Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Thanks for the write up Satchmo! I never really understood where the swivel foot even went. Now I do.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue, I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace. Where never lark, or even eagle flew. And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod, The high untrespassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
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Re: Swivel foot adjusters
I bought a set of EMPI swivel feet 10 years ago and they lasted 1000 miles until they pounded the ball into the cup. I switched to Porsche ones and have no problems.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- SlowLane
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livermore, CA
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
If you're considering installing swivel-feet on a hydraulic-lifter engine, be sure to first read the warning given by John at Aircooled.net:
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewpr ... 1283076706
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewpr ... 1283076706
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Good write-up, satchmo. I used 911 adjusters in the Road Warrior for 189,000 trouble free miles.
Colin
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
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Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Sheesh, I've aspired, but maybe I'll stick with the stock.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- satchmo
- Old School!
- Location: Crosby, MN
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Here is a photo of why I made the switch to swivel foot adjusters (specifically the Porsche style):ruckman101 wrote:Sheesh, I've aspired, but maybe I'll stick with the stock.
neal
I think these are aftermarket 8mm adjusters. I don't recall. But check out how much wear there is from only 20K miles. Number four from the left has almost worn down to the threads. The others are quite inconsistent. But they would all make you worried that you have some problem going on that is loosening/increasing the valve clearances.
So maybe the moral here is that if you put in new stock type adjusters, make sure they are genuine VW. And if you put in swivel foot adjusters, make sure they are the Porsche style.
Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
-
- IAC Addict!
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Be sure to note the warning linked to above ~ no go on hydraulic lifters. Bummer; I was hoping at least one part of the Road Rat could be 911ish.satchmo wrote:Here is a photo of why I made the switch to swivel foot adjusters (specifically the Porsche style):ruckman101 wrote:Sheesh, I've aspired, but maybe I'll stick with the stock.
neal
I think these are aftermarket 8mm adjusters. I don't recall. But check out how much wear there is from only 20K miles. Number four from the left has almost worn down to the threads. The others are quite inconsistent. But they would all make you worried that you have some problem going on that is loosening/increasing the valve clearances.
So maybe the moral here is that if you put in new stock type adjusters, make sure they are genuine VW. And if you put in swivel foot adjusters, make sure they are the Porsche style.
Tim
Michael L
- SlowLane
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livermore, CA
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Re: Swivel foot adjusters
That's the moral I learned a few years ago. I made the mistake of replacing my aging, pitted valve adjusters with some inexpensive ones from a local engine builder. In fewer than 50 km. the new adjusters had had their faces "smeared" by the valve tips and were shedding metal shavings. I immediately went to the VW dealer and gritted my teeth while paying them $11 for each factory-hardened-and-blesssed adjuster.satchmo wrote:So maybe the moral here is that if you put in new stock type adjusters, make sure they are genuine VW.
Peace of mind ain't cheap.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
- Westy78
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Stumptown OR
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Oof. I remember paying eight bucks a piece a few years ago. And now seeing this thread has reminded me that I sold them in my old engine. I wonder what adjusters came in my engine kit?SlowLane wrote:That's the moral I learned a few years ago. I made the mistake of replacing my aging, pitted valve adjusters with some inexpensive ones from a local engine builder. In fewer than 50 km. the new adjusters had had their faces "smeared" by the valve tips and were shedding metal shavings. I immediately went to the VW dealer and gritted my teeth while paying them $11 for each factory-hardened-and-blesssed adjuster.satchmo wrote:So maybe the moral here is that if you put in new stock type adjusters, make sure they are genuine VW.
Peace of mind ain't cheap.
Chorizo, it's what's for breakfast.
- sailorkh
- Addicted!
- Location: Alameda, Ca
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Prices have gone up a tad...
http://www.germansupply.com/home/custom ... at=&page=1
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/stor ... 287&page=1
http://www.germansupply.com/home/custom ... at=&page=1
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/stor ... 287&page=1
Kris
1971 Deluxe "Ole blue"
1978 Westfalia "Gretchen"
1966 Cal40 "Viva"
1971 Deluxe "Ole blue"
1978 Westfalia "Gretchen"
1966 Cal40 "Viva"
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
I bought mine for $9.00/ea in 2002.sailorkh wrote:Prices have gone up a tad...
http://www.germansupply.com/home/custom ... at=&page=1
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/stor ... 287&page=1
I bitched about the price then too.
ColinWhatTheHell?
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Could one switch from say the Pinto style to the Porsche style without any modification/s? A simple swap of the adjusters say?
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- satchmo
- Old School!
- Location: Crosby, MN
- Status: Offline
Re: Swivel foot adjusters
Yes, if your rocker arms have already been modified to accept the Pinto style AND you spend a little time making sure your valve geometry is correct after the switch to the Porsche style.72Hardtop wrote:Could one switch from say the Pinto style to the Porsche style without any modification/s? A simple swap of the adjusters say?
Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius