How can you 'like' War?

[LiveonJG]

How about "Why War ????"

I love that one!

See you there! I'll bring some good Belgian Ale to toast the midnight sun. I'm sure we'll have more to agree on than stuff to debate once we get of the semantics of this topic.

Sounds good to me! I'll probably be drinking an Arrogant Bastard. A fine special occasion brew, ok any occasion.
See you then,
John

[DjEep]

Stone makes some good brews. Have you tried the 6/6/6 vertical ale?

[smitty4160]

Hello -- this is probably not the best place to introduce myself, but I've never been one to take the easy road. May be why I'm driving a VW bus older than me. Anyway...

I began a reply to this that was much longer than this, but then my computer rebooted (why? I have no idea) and I lost everything. I'm going to take that as a sign that I was being too long-winded and need to just cut to the chase.

I understand the desire to make a point and piss people off -- I have a FUCK BUSH sticker on my keyboard rig that I bought at Ashbury and Haight in SF that I've had to spend much time covering with electrical tape to keep a gig. I understand the concern about kids. I have a six year old, but c'mon -- unless you're home-schooling 'em and keeping extreme tabs on 'em 24/7 you can't keep 'em away from bad influence. Step up, be a parent, and teach 'em -- don't try to keep 'em away from life. Kids should know that there are "grown-up" things and kids things -- there is nothing wrong with that.

As far as a FUCK WAR sticker, yeah, it is meant to offend. It is not meant to reach understanding or open doors for discussion -- it is meant to say, "I have had enough of this, I have heard enough and am not open to discussion and you are either with me or against me." (That's paraphrased, of course.) That's the same attitude as some folks who hijacked and flew planes into buildings a few years back and the same attitude of a government that declared war on terrorism without the support of most of the rest of the world shortly after.

I dunno, but it seems that FUCK WAR just perpetuates the attitude it appears to want to speak out against.

Just my $.02.

[dingo]

I dont understand the need to protect children from words like 'fuck'. Its only a word after all, and all meaning attached to it is relative to the situation and the intent. Kids are more dialed in to the frequencies of things than us dulled adults. They tend to express themselves freely, so why restrain them from using words that merely express frustration or momentary aggression. I think that a society that bottles up its expression under the guise of some kind of civilized code of conduct, is more likely to come unstuck and go to war.

Too much coffee too early...

[LiveonJG]

Stone makes some good brews. Have you tried the 6/6/6 vertical ale?

Yea, but Ruination IPA is probably my fav... next to Double Arrogant, but that's a seasonal.

[LiveonJG]

They tend to express themselves freely, so why restrain them from using words that merely express frustration or momentary aggression.

Go ahead and explain that to their 1st grade teacher. I'm in no way saying that kids need to be sheltered from the larger society, what I am saying is that the larger society has a responsibility to provide a healthy and safe enviroment for kids to grow up in. I think it would be a better world all around if more people took this perspective. I have had to deal with this particular thing with my kids on several occaisions, usually something written on a wall, sometimes a bumper sticker, and sometimes someone shouting. What I say to them is "Some people can't come up with a better way to express themselves, so they use words that they think will bring them attention." Sadly, the message the sender is trying to convey gets lost in the mix. I know what we're talking about here are just words, alone they have no intrinsic value, neither good nor bad. That's great from an academic point of view. But remember, we're all members of a larger society. Like it or not we do have to interact with each other. Those same harmless words injected into conversation take on some very significant connotations. I'm taking the time and effort to put my thoughts into a thoughful and hopefully thought provoking collection of words. I try to teach my kids to do the same. If anyone would like to see what happens when you don't bother trying, visit here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
-John

[Amskeptic]

I think that a society that bottles up its expression under the guise of some kind of civilized code of conduct, is more likely to come unstuck and go to war.

Excellent! I agree.
Colin

[Amskeptic]

Those same harmless words injected into conversation take on some very significant connotations.

The first time I made a kid cry because of my words, I realized that words are powerful. As an adult, I understand there is a choice to accept or ignore the words hurled my way. As a child, I had no such understanding.

Words can and do wound. Those of us who can brush them off successfully cannot just assume that others will.

However, I am much more delicate with children than with adults. I get annoyed as hell by politically-correct word nannies who flit about looking for offense and expressing "hurt" with no corresponding true emotion.
Colin

[DjEep]

I try to teach my kids to do the same. If anyone would like to see what happens when you don't bother trying, visit here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
-John

Cheap Shot!
:smt068

[DjEep]

As far as a FUCK WAR sticker, yeah, it is meant to offend. It is not meant to reach understanding or open doors for discussion -- it is meant to say, "I have had enough of this, I have heard enough and am not open to discussion and you are either with me or against me." (That's paraphrased, of course.) That's the same attitude as some folks who hijacked and flew planes into buildings a few years back and the same attitude of a government that declared war on terrorism without the support of most of the rest of the world shortly after.

I dunno, but it seems that FUCK WAR just perpetuates the attitude it appears to want to speak out against.

I don't expect to change any minds. Just rattle them a bit. It is near impossible to change the world views of a grown human, period, let alone with a sign or bumper sticker.

It's just a sign! No "political" bumper sticker really changes minds, they are really just badges to let others like you know you're in the same club as them.

The idea that you can change the minds of adult humans who are ready to kill to make their point is why the people of the world keep getting sucked into joining the people ready kill to change the minds of the "other" people ready to kill to change the minds of the people ready to kill them....and so and so forth.....

So I say FUCK it! I can't change others but I can change myself. I can choose not to jump on that bandwagen.

"Be the change you wish to see in others"
Seeing another person change is a much more effective motivation for true change than threat.

Maybe that is why watching nimble mind of a child learn, grow and change is one of the few things that can drastically change a persons worldview.

[LiveonJG]

I get annoyed as hell by politically-correct word nannies who flit about looking for offense and expressing "hurt" with no corresponding true emotion.
Colin

I hope you don't mean me, I'm far from being a "word nannie". But, I do believe people, all people, need to be treated with respect. I'll admit it appears that that concept has fallen out of fashion these days. Still, I'm sticking with it.

Cheap Shot!
:smt068

I deserve that. :smt023

[hambone]

To inflame has it's purpose and place.
If one wants to stop war, they spread love, not more blackness. Alienation helps no one, you change someone's attitude by becoming their friend. Why do humans tend to herd?
Unless they're hillbillies driving too fast and flashing their brights. Screw them.

[dingo]

"Be the change you wish to see in others"
Seeing another person change is a much more effective motivation for true change than threat.

..sort of like when the primary of the coil gets all juiced up ..changes its magnetic field, then the secondary, merely feeling the change in vibe, gets inspired to make some sparkss of its own. No actual physical force was neccessary.

Okay thats the best i can do to make this a thread of technical relevance. Now on to the Circle of Ales !!

[Amskeptic]

I get annoyed as hell by politically-correct word nannies who flit about looking for offense and expressing "hurt" with no corresponding true emotion.
Colin

I hope you don't mean me, I'm far from being a "word nannie".

Good Lord no. We are on the same page. Words matter. When a child/anyone has a legitimate emotional reaction, the power of words is perfectly evident. I try to honor that.

Political Correctness many times strikes me as phony reaction by those looking for emotional catharsis. Yet I trust the decency inherent in being honestly careful with your words.
Colin

[DjEep]

"Be the change you wish to see in others"
Seeing another person change is a much more effective motivation for true change than threat.

..sort of like when the primary of the coil gets all juiced up ..changes its magnetic field, then the secondary, merely feeling the change in vibe, gets inspired to make some sparkss of its own. No actual physical force was neccessary.

Okay thats the best i can do to make this a thread of technical relevance. Now on to the Circle of Ales !!

Ever hear the train tracks sizzle with electricity in front of the locomotive? Indution is proof that just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not real.