North Korea has nukes. :(

[DurocShark]

The administration is stalling for time, claiming to be "confirming" the test. But we have the globe covered by satellites to watch for nuclear explosions (and missile launches), in addition to the seismic sensor network that is specifically watching for nuclear detonation.

So what they're doing is stalling for time to get an attack force in place. Has to be.

As much as I find yet another war distasteful, we (the world, not just the US) cannot allow Kim Jong Il to have nuclear capabilities.

:(

The doomsday clock should be at 2 minutes to midnight. It's still at 7 minutes.

[glasseye]

So what they're doing is stalling for time to get an attack force in place. Has to be.

They'll have to stall for quite a while, I'd say. It took a year for Gulf One. Another year for Iraq.

[DjEep]

George Bush is probably more likely to nuke first...

[steve74baywin]

The administration is stalling for time, claiming to be "confirming" the test. But we have the globe covered by satellites to watch for nuclear explosions (and missile launches), in addition to the seismic sensor network that is specifically watching for nuclear detonation.

So what they're doing is stalling for time to get an attack force in place. Has to be.

As much as I find yet another war distasteful, we (the world, not just the US) cannot allow Kim Jong Il to have nuclear capabilities.

:(

The doomsday clock should be at 2 minutes to midnight. It's still at 7 minutes.

1) When did we become God?
2) If GWB is incharge of a country with nukes, we can't get any worse.
3) I hope this ain't like with Saddam,,,,,,It kinda went like this----We think Saddam is very bad and could some day do harm to some, so we will do harm first.....Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
To set off even one bomb that kills even one person just so we can be safer, sounds like an evil rotten country I don't want to claim,,,therefore I will work to change it, 1st by enlightning people.

[DurocShark]

1. When a country that frequently threatens us has a verified ability to harm us.
2. No argument there, but it has nothing to do with the current discussion.
3. Apples and Oranges. Saddham was personal for GWB.

[steve74baywin]

1. When a country that frequently threatens us has a verified ability to harm us.
2. No argument there, but it has nothing to do with the current discussion.
3. Apples and Oranges. Saddham was personal for GWB.

I disagree, we didn't invade Afghanastan because of Ben Ladin, we didn't invade Iraq because it was personnal for GW, and they don't want to invade Korea because they fear they will attack us for no reason...
The answer to all these is the same answer I plug in for the 50+ dumb things they have done in office since 2001, all those things people say doesn't make sense,,,plug this in everytime and it makes sense. "There agenda is to control, dominate and get rich"

[DurocShark]

Steve, are you so truly blinded by your hatred for Bush et al that you can't see when there is a genuine threat?

[steve74baywin]

Steve, are you so truly blinded by your hatred for Bush et al that you can't see when there is a genuine threat?

I've done so much looking into this that I think I know the theat... GWB..
Good greif, they used the Commie BS for ages, I thought that ended, I thought they were using Terror now to control the people...
How is it people believe that just cause these people live in other country and look different they have only one desire and that is to attack the USA...
If they did have this non existant desire, it is becuase they fear us...
I say if I was in any of these countries you bet your bottom dollar I'd be wanting nukes,,,I'd be fearing the the US Government might conjure up lies about my country like it did abour Iraq and then bomb us... Countries like Korea and Iran have no choice but to want Nukes with Bush in office and blind sheep followers.

[DurocShark]

I say if I was in any of these countries you bet your bottom dollar I'd be wanting nukes,,,

The concept is "Defending your home". And every nation should feel that way.

However, in NK's case there were better ways to defend themselves. Like take the offers made by both the US and China. That would have worked out great for NK as well as the rest of the world.

Instead, Kim is fixated on power and cannot get enough. (Sounds like GWB huh?) And the US wouldn't be the only target. In fact, untill they get ICBMs working in NK, the only real targets are Japan and South Korea. Both allies of ours.

I'm not trying to say that GWB is a great president. That would be like saying Russia should have stuck with a Communist economy. I'm just saying that this is one of the things that has nothing to do with GWB, and it needs to be dealt with regardless of who the puppet in the White House is.

[Adventurewagen]

This all is a little scary, huh. One of my good buddies and room mate for a few years was born and raised in South Korea till he was a teenager then he and his parents moved to the US. He gives some interesting insight from South Korea and how they do fear North Korea.

While I hope nobody nukes anybody, I do worry about NK just because of their crazy dictator. He seems like the kinda guy who would send a nuke to South Korea or Japan hoping to get us, the world police, to provoke conflict.

and while I'm not a GWB fan I'm less of a fan of Saddam and in a way whether or not he had WMD's or not, getting him out of power seems now like it was a good thing. I don't say we did a great job and I'm worried about what we will continue to do... but...

I have a bunch of friends in the Military who have all served a tour or more in Afghanistan or Iraq and ALL of them have come back and said they felt what they were doing was the most important thing they've ever done in their life. The media likes to paint some aweful pictures, and war is BAD and UGLY and HORRIBLE but some of the good that's coming to the people and the good they brought and are still bringing will hopefully bring them out of the dark ages and into a true future. Because personally I don't think they had one with Saddam at the reigns. Again I don't know that it was done the best, but it seems like its a losing battle either way.

[Amskeptic]

The concept is "Defending your home".

And we have damaged the concept horribly with Iraq.
"Pre-emptive doctrine" is exactly the recipe for little countries to up the ante because they cannot rely on us to RESPECT THEIR SOVEREIGNITY.

We have lost the right to squeal about being afraid of them.
We were never never never afraid of Saddam Hussein, we supplied him and his military for the profits of our offense contractors $$$$$$ remember?

We blew it with that invasion of Iraq. We squandered our reputation for even-handed diplomacy and respect for sovereignity. "But the terrorists disrespected our sov. . ." STOP!
We blew our chance to draw in a synchronized international response to the actual terrorists responsible for 9/11,with cowboy Bush's bumbling stupidity who had other nefarious reasons for being in Iraq.

Iran has the RIGHT to nuclear energy, so does North Korea. We cannot bad-ass our way out of the painful but important lesson that we MUST negotiate with people we do not agree with.

If we had not blown it, we could have put in some serious and unanimous international sanctions. We are the idiots who turned away from the international community, who would not pay our U.N. dues, not sign the Kyoto Protocol, who refuses to honor the Geneva Conventions, and we think we can cry that North Korea is not following the rules?

We could have toppled that tin hat dictator with massive financial aid that would have easily turned the populace against that nit-wit, but we blew our cash on Halliburton and tax cuts for the rich in "war time" no less. It is sickening.
Colin

[chitwnvw]

No, we blew it in 1945 with Nagasaki and Hiroshima. A non urban, non lethal demonstration of that weapon would have accomplished just the same. Now we want to deprive others of this weapon, why? Because they can't handle it and might use it. We are the only nation to ever use it on others.

[DjEep]

Colin for National Security Advisor!

[DurocShark]

The concept is "Defending your home".

And we have damaged the concept horribly with Iraq.
"Pre-emptive doctrine" is exactly the recipe for little countries to up the ante because they cannot rely on us to RESPECT THEIR SOVEREIGNITY.

What I meant was that EVERY nation has the right to defend their homes. I also feel that Kim has surrendered the NK nation's right voluntarily by testing this nuke.

His own biggest ally, China, told him not to do it. Now, China's Premier has to explain to the rest of his party why he supported Kim when Kim simply thumbed his nose at the world. Including China.

I think China will have more direct involvement in resolving this issue than we will. It happened in their sphere of influence. China has lost face here, and will be looking to make up for it.

But our treaties with SK and Japan require us to ensure their safety (I've been looking online for text of those treaties and can't find it. If anybody has a link, please post it!)

This is a pivotal moment. Do we put up or shut up? There is risk in either decision. There are benefits to either decision. How we as a nation handle ourselves here will determine the face of the world for the next 50 years. If we allow Kim to keep his newest toy, and he uses it against South Korea or Japan, nobody will ever believe us again. Bush or no Bush. If we invade NK and make a mess of it (as appears likely) we'll be the laughing stock of the world, regardless of who's in office.

It's a tough choice and I can armchair quarterback this and say we should invade (my personal opinion), but I certainly don't envy the people that truly must make this decision.

(Devil's Advocate speaking here: But what if the Bush administration somehow secretly encouraged Kim to do just what he did to help take the world's eyes off the other bullshit Bush is doing?)

[dingo]

yep, the best way to control a population, as all the major religions have done for millenia, is to instill fear, and then offer yourself as the solution or protector. Its old school.