Vanagon Coolant Leak

[sped372]

Coolant leak!

I guess I should have expected it. Drove the 'new' van about 15 minutes yesterday, first it's really moved since the hour-plus drive home, and now today while just sitting there is a drip drip coolant leak from the left-hand head (cold overnight and haven't started since yesterday). I'm watching kids today so don't have time to investigate further than just a quick peek yet.

It looks to be dripping out of the air deflector under the head. Big enough (12" diameter wicked out) puddle on the concrete so far now, was dry yesterday. I have to believe it's from the water jacket seal? Crazy. I can see a tiny 0.5" pill-shaped puddle of coolant near the seal topside. Heads were supposedly just replaced 1,000 miles ago by previous owner.

Anything else to look at/for besides the obvious? Should I start it up and see if the leak gets worse (under pressure)? I put a catch pan under there for now.

[sped372]

A couple quick shots. Like I said I only had a moment to take a peek b/c of the kids. I need to try to get a better look from unerneath... not sure if I have to pull that piece of tin or maybe can see using a mirror. Wiped off the bit on top to see if that comes back, which I feel would be strange while sitting. All new to me though.

[Amskeptic]

Like I said I only had a moment to take a peek b/c of the kids.

NOW THEN, please put on your diagnostic x-ray goggles and think clearly.

You need to ascertain the effects of gravity, air flow, and engine temperature. Clean the area of any coolant.
Look carefully for any dribble tracks along the undersides of coolant hoses that pass over suspected area.
If no obvious source presents itself,

Start engine, and allow to come to temperature. Please let us know if the leak is more apparent when cold or when the cooling system starts developing pressure as it warms. Does the leak not show up until the engine is asked to work at operating rpms?

If it is coming out at the block-to-head seal, well, that is fun:

[sped372]

Yeah, fun... rrrrrrrrright.

I took the day off to get a few things done before winter. Pulled the lower tin and it looks dry under (above?) there. Wiped the catch pan out and going to see if any drips appear so I can hopefully spot the origin instead of just seeing it coming out of the tin. Had maybe 2 tablespoons of coolant in the pan overnight.



Is it safe to drive without that tin on temporarily? I know all tin is vital on the aircooleds, but not sure if so with water. Guessing it's more just protection for the pushrod tubes than cooling. Some folks on theSamba are recommending pressurizing the system to check for leaks cold, any opinions on that?

[sped372]

I found a small hose over the top of the engine that was weeping slightly. I was able to track a small trail of coolant starting at the bottom of the engine and working upwards. The drips were coming from the outboard end of the head, nowhere near the block-to-head seal. The trail went straight upward from there, to the intake manifold, and then over to just under that little hose. Snugged up the hose clamp. Cross your fingers for us that it really was that easy!



Thankfully the areas I was looking at were clean from the recent head replacement... rest of the engine bay needs a detail!

[Amskeptic]

Snugged up hose clamp.

See? I love those cars.
ColinCrossedFingers

[yondermtn]

I've had to snug up several hose clamps for similar leaks.

I do have a water jacket leak that only appears in the cold weather.
Oh, I'm driving with the driver's side tin removed. No way those bolts were coming off the studs so I had to cut the bracket to remove the tin. I did this to replace the oil pressure sender.

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details. ... parent_id=
I bought this for pressure testing and it works well. You can make something similar for cheaper but I like the convenience and size of this one.
I'd recommend stocking up on spare sensors - coolant temp(gauge and FI), coolant level sensor, etc. They aren't commonly stocked items.(found out the hard way).

[sped372]

Thanks for the advice!

[ainokea]

The photo clearly shows your head seal, head gasket, is blown. and will need to be replaced. I have done many of these repairs over more than just a few years, and believe me when I say it's not a job for the weak at heart, or those without all the tools, specs, and equipment, to get the job done right.

Just a note of caution: Do not use any stop leak compounds in a wasserboxer. It will foul up the whole system. Also, when the engine is off and it's parked, the internal pressure will decrease and the leak will stop, as the seal deteriorates the leak will increase, especially at RPM, you will then get the temp lite coming on as air displaces more of the coolant , if driving is a must, make sure the coolant fill container is full and bled out.
Ainokea

[Amskeptic]

The photo clearly shows your head seal, head gasket, is blown. and will need to be replaced. I have done many of these repairs over more than just a few years, and believe me when I say it's not a job for the weak at heart, or those without all the tools, specs, and equipment, to get the job done right.

Just a note of caution: Do not use any stop leak compounds in a wasserboxer. It will foul up the whole system. Also, when the engine is off and it's parked, the internal pressure will decrease and the leak will stop, as the seal deteriorates the leak will increase, especially at RPM, you will then get the temp lite coming on as air displaces more of the coolant , if driving is a must, make sure the coolant fill container is full and bled out.
Ainokea

Umm, hello? Re-read the thread. It was a coolant hose weeping onto the head.

Be very careful in this forum, in any technical forum here, not to jump to authoritative keyboard conclusions.

We ask questions, as seen above, to narrow down *possibilities* to the real problem as reported by the person who is actually there observing the symptoms.

You might enjoy some of the stories about Vanagon cylinder head leaks . . .

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=4350#p71073


viewtopic.php?f=58&t=8228#p147241

[sped372]

So far so good, knock on wood. The leak has not reappeared after snugging down that hose clamp. This was definitely a good example of benefiting from careful inspection before jumping to any conclusions.

[ainokea]

Mr. Administrator, sorry about the mistake in my diagnosis, but from the pictures and description, it seemed like the seal had blown. Something that is very common on these wasserboxer engines. I would assume you personally have vast knowledge of these engines and have never made mistake one. I did not see any mention of pressurizing the system to pinpoint the source of the leak, which should have been number one on the list of diagnostic procedures. Photos, although helpful, are not the best way to diagnose a problem. I made the mistake of making a snap judgement based solely on the photos, for that I apologize. I will not make that mistake again, my word on that. Ainokea

[Amskeptic]

Mr. Administrator, sorry about the mistake in my diagnosis, but from the pictures and description, it seemed like the seal had blown. Something that is very common on these wasserboxer engines. I would assume you personally have vast knowledge of these engines and have never made mistake one. I did not see any mention of pressurizing the system to pinpoint the source of the leak, which should have been number one on the list of diagnostic procedures. Photos, although helpful, are not the best way to diagnose a problem. I made the mistake of making a snap judgement based solely on the photos, for that I apologize. I will not make that mistake again, my word on that. Ainokea

Not a problem.
Plan on making a mistake again maybe somewhere else about something different. This whole website here is not interested in The Answers & Who Has Them.

Those who declare the answers before asking the question can be found in abundance elsewhere. Maybe it is important to their egos to appear knowledgeable. After getting bitten by the stubbornness of mechanical objects too many times now, I can reliably state that I do not know much, but I do know how to ask a mechanical object where is it not feeling well.

I think this site has a more question-oriented approach to figuring out what is wrong.
SocratiColi

[ainokea]

There seems to be a very adversarial atmosphere here. You know, like I'm the one in charge. My thoughts and massive knowledge of all VW's are not open to any thing except what I say. Sorry to have intruded in your little kingdom. I'm out. Ainokea Retired 45 years with VW.

[Amskeptic]

There seems to be a very adversarial atmosphere here. You know, like I'm the one in charge. My thoughts and massive knowledge of all VW's are not open to any thing except what I say. Sorry to have intruded in your little kingdom. I'm out. Ainokea Retired 45 years with VW.

My apologies for offending you. Please feel free to return any time.

Colin