Canoe Advice
- whc03grady
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Canoe Advice
I'd like eventually to get a family canoe. It'd be used only on lakes and rivers with Class II rapids at the very most. Family size is four, the kids are currently 6 and 0.5.
I'm thinking it'd have to be at least 16', but someone else surely knows better than me. Besides the length, I'm wondering about informed opinions on materials (aluminum vs. fiberglass vs. kevlar vs. whatever else) and makers. And of course, anything else obvious I haven't mentioned.
I'm thinking it'd have to be at least 16', but someone else surely knows better than me. Besides the length, I'm wondering about informed opinions on materials (aluminum vs. fiberglass vs. kevlar vs. whatever else) and makers. And of course, anything else obvious I haven't mentioned.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com
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Re: Canoe Advice
Try and find a Sawyer Cruiser. I have years of paddling, mostly in the Everglades, and own 4 Sawyer canoes. Following is a review I wrote for paddling.net (excellent resource), back in 1999:
The Sawyer Cruiser...this is what canoeing is all about. I bought my first Cruiser about 15 years ago, after paddling a borrowed one. This solidly built canoe has taken me, my wife and family throughout the Everglades on extended trips with heavy payloads or pleasant day trips. Another reviewer has mentioned its incredible tracking, and I agree. A person can paddle this canoe all day without becoming exhausted. It is a dry canoe...on the Everglade's Wilderness Waterway in open bays we have encountered 25 knot headwinds churning up rolling whitecaps. The Sawyer Cruiser glides through such seas with ease, and very little water comes aboard. Stability is excellent. We have also paddled the Delaware River in the Cruiser, and enjoyed it in the river environment. Most of all, it has been our family canoe. It has held my wife, myself, our 15 year old daughter and 4 year old son and gear for a 4 day trip. Now this did take some planning and packing, but once we got that figured out, the Cruiser took the load and we cruised. The only problem that I ever had as far as a quality issue is that after about 6 years, one of the plastic tractor style seats cracked. At the time, I called Sawyer, and they immediately sent me not one, but two replacement seats gratis. I have replaced some rivets that were corroded by the salt water, but I consider that normal wear and tear for a canoe this age. Canoes in the 'glades take a lot of abuse due to the oyster bars in some of the murky flats. It has been an easy matter to lay up some fiberglas mat and patch up the abrasions in the Goldenglas. Over the years I have bought two other Cruisers, and have taken novices canoeing in the Everglades using these canoes. This is a perfect boat to introduce a person to this activity with the least chance of equipment anxiety. They obviously kept it simple at Sawyer, and the Cruiser is art in the water. Incidentally, anyone planning a trip to South Florida and the Everglades who would like a little e-feedback on trails or trips, drop a line. This is one of the best places in the world for a canoe (in the cooler months, anyhow).
Check out Craig's List and be patient; do not rush into buying just anything-there is some real crap in the marketplace. Above all-do not get an aluminum canoe! They are a terrible idea, real dogs in the water, way too heavy, and will ultimately just piss you off. I ran into a honeymoon couple in the middle of the Everglades once, paddling a Grumman. The woman had sock on her hands and was crying. Both of their hands were bloody and raw, and the trip had become a nightmare. They had miles to go before they would get out. I often wonder if the marriage survived Lostman's River. The Sawyer Cruiser is the best canoe for your size family, and will handle a 1000 pound payload (which you will never reach). I bought all mine from Craig's List ads except one. Expect to pay 300-850.00 for one, depending on condition. Good luck; it's a great sport.
The Sawyer Cruiser...this is what canoeing is all about. I bought my first Cruiser about 15 years ago, after paddling a borrowed one. This solidly built canoe has taken me, my wife and family throughout the Everglades on extended trips with heavy payloads or pleasant day trips. Another reviewer has mentioned its incredible tracking, and I agree. A person can paddle this canoe all day without becoming exhausted. It is a dry canoe...on the Everglade's Wilderness Waterway in open bays we have encountered 25 knot headwinds churning up rolling whitecaps. The Sawyer Cruiser glides through such seas with ease, and very little water comes aboard. Stability is excellent. We have also paddled the Delaware River in the Cruiser, and enjoyed it in the river environment. Most of all, it has been our family canoe. It has held my wife, myself, our 15 year old daughter and 4 year old son and gear for a 4 day trip. Now this did take some planning and packing, but once we got that figured out, the Cruiser took the load and we cruised. The only problem that I ever had as far as a quality issue is that after about 6 years, one of the plastic tractor style seats cracked. At the time, I called Sawyer, and they immediately sent me not one, but two replacement seats gratis. I have replaced some rivets that were corroded by the salt water, but I consider that normal wear and tear for a canoe this age. Canoes in the 'glades take a lot of abuse due to the oyster bars in some of the murky flats. It has been an easy matter to lay up some fiberglas mat and patch up the abrasions in the Goldenglas. Over the years I have bought two other Cruisers, and have taken novices canoeing in the Everglades using these canoes. This is a perfect boat to introduce a person to this activity with the least chance of equipment anxiety. They obviously kept it simple at Sawyer, and the Cruiser is art in the water. Incidentally, anyone planning a trip to South Florida and the Everglades who would like a little e-feedback on trails or trips, drop a line. This is one of the best places in the world for a canoe (in the cooler months, anyhow).
Check out Craig's List and be patient; do not rush into buying just anything-there is some real crap in the marketplace. Above all-do not get an aluminum canoe! They are a terrible idea, real dogs in the water, way too heavy, and will ultimately just piss you off. I ran into a honeymoon couple in the middle of the Everglades once, paddling a Grumman. The woman had sock on her hands and was crying. Both of their hands were bloody and raw, and the trip had become a nightmare. They had miles to go before they would get out. I often wonder if the marriage survived Lostman's River. The Sawyer Cruiser is the best canoe for your size family, and will handle a 1000 pound payload (which you will never reach). I bought all mine from Craig's List ads except one. Expect to pay 300-850.00 for one, depending on condition. Good luck; it's a great sport.
- jcbrock
- Getting Hooked!
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Re: Canoe Advice
Canoeing the Everglades isn't like canoeing the Northwoods, canoeing lakes isn't at all like canoeing rivers. For lakes you want a canoe that is low to prevent wind steerage, handles waves and paddles straight easily, a river canoe you want higher ends to keep the whitewater out and something that turns on a dime. Best you can do is probably get some kind of general touring canoe if you want to do both with one. Aluminum and kevlar are pretty unsuitable to rivers, you are going to dent or hole them. You WILL hit rocks, they have canoe magnets in them. Fiberglass would work but it's pretty darn heavy, you probably want a composite of some sort. I really like Weh-no-nah canoes (made in Winona MN), most of the outfitters around here use them and they have some helpful information on choosing worth checking out: http://www.wenonah.com/ChoosingCanoe.aspx. Maybe look at a composite Spirit II as a good example of an all-purpose canoe and adjust from there.
Get a good boat and use it a lot, I will second what Jivermo said: it's a great sport.
Get a good boat and use it a lot, I will second what Jivermo said: it's a great sport.
'76 Type II Station Wagon - in the family since new!
Corvallis, OR
Corvallis, OR
- Mulcheese
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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Re: Canoe Advice
I see that I am jumping in this fairly late but I thought some others may benefit. We love to camp and canoe. Our camping in volves spots that alow canoeing. We are a family of 4.5. The .5 would be the dog and we all fit in the canoe for day on the water. Most of the time we are just out for some casual travel and some foshing. My kids are 7 and 10 and we fit just fine. I steer from the stern, my wife navigates from the bow and the kids sit on bost cushions in the middle. We have enough room for some packs, poles, tackle, anchor, and other little things. The canoe we have is like jcbrrock suggested. It is a Wenonah spirit II, 17' rolex (composite). We acquired it from an outfitter in Ely,Mn. This is the entry to the BWCAW. We were able to get this almost brand new canoe for $400 becasue the first person to take it out rapped it around a rock in the rapids so it has some wrinkles in it. This is a good testiment to the resilience of the material. Ideal for river riding. You should have some outfitters near you that sell of there old stock, unless you have moved on and not interested any longer. Hope this helps someone.
"attending to things in the moment with curiosity and acceptance."
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82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."
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82 Vanagon Westy - aka: Honey Badger - "cause she just dont give a ...."
- busboytom
- I'm New!
- Location: Western Wisconsin
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Re: Canoe Advice
We like FREE......the canoe that is. Have to remove before the top goes up but when you're setting up camp for more than a day, that's no problem. Same goes for the tent....usually leave it home but sometimes, it's a great addition if for nothing else, it attracts attention and fun conversation.
busboytom
71 Squareback
77 Westfalia
68 Westfalia
Sears Allstate trailer
Appleby popup camper
71 Squareback
77 Westfalia
68 Westfalia
Sears Allstate trailer
Appleby popup camper
- the miz
- Addicted!
- Location: Minnesota
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Re: Canoe Advice
I'm in the same canoe with Tom...free is good! I'm still using the 17' Lowe (mid '70s vintage) that I grew up with...the thing's a beast...has a 2" keel and a wide beam so it is super stable with the kids and tracks well. I have beached it on many rocky flowage landings (not to mention ice shelves) in the UP with no problems. Never done much in the way of whitewater...plenty of rivers and lakes though, paddles nicely...but I like to keep the portages short due to the weight.busboytom wrote:We like FREE......the canoe that is. Have to remove before the top goes up but when you're setting up camp for more than a day, that's no problem.
Simply put: If I'm going to do an extensive BWCA trip, I'd rent a Kevlar. If I'm going family camping, I'd use this canoe; it's been a great canoe, it will probably last forever:
-miz
1982 Westy- Vana White
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: Canoe Advice
Aw heck, Ian, I have done many a Delaware canoe trip with a bunch of soft Long Island kids paddling our terrible idea Grumman dogs over rocks and rapids, and never did anyone ask for socks on their hands.Jivermo wrote:Above all-do not get an aluminum canoe! They are a terrible idea, real dogs in the water, way too heavy, and will ultimately just piss you off. I ran into a honeymoon couple in the middle of the Everglades once, paddling a Grumman. The woman had sock on her hands and was crying.
Reminds me of those Sprinter van conversion people idly gossiping within earshot, "above all, do not get a VW Westfalia, way too unstable in the wind, and will ultimately piss off everyone on the long hill."
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
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Re: Canoe Advice
Sorry, Colin...I'm a canoe snob. While I do agree that getting folks out on the water is wonderful, the aluminum canoe is abominable. Grumman came out of the war with knowledge of riveting aluminum for building our fighter planes and bombers. After the boom production years of WW2, they needed new product lines to keep their workers busy, and for jobs for returning servicemen. The riveted aluminum canoe was born. No longer did folks have to re-canvas their wood frame canoes, varnish them, or even take care of them. It was the canoe for the lazy masses. Pull it out of the pond at Summer's end, and shove it under the cabin. It was a panzer tank in what had been a craftsman's domain. It weighed a ton, and the hundreds of rivets created considerable drag in the water. If it is all that you can get your hands on, go for it. But as soon as you can, move up to a royalex or better Fiberglas canoe, and enjoy your paddle.
Colin, perhaps we'll have time for an Everglades paddle when you're here. In a Sawyer.
Colin, perhaps we'll have time for an Everglades paddle when you're here. In a Sawyer.
- Randy in Maine
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Re: Canoe Advice
I will likely invest in an Old Town Camper 16-17 footer in the near future. Very stable & light. Not so nice that I would feel really bad if I ran it over some rocks. Around $500 on craigslist the last time I was looking. Will hold a lot of gear if needed.
I would really like to do the Boundary Waters in a few years.
I would really like to do the Boundary Waters in a few years.
79 VW Bus
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Re: Canoe Advice
Me, too, Randy! I've canoed the entire Everglades waterway and trail system, and just about every real river in Florida, as well as a big stretch of the Delaware in Pa. Would love to canoe the Boundary Waters before I bite the big one.
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Re: Canoe Advice
Sawyer Cruisers landed on an Everglades Hammock, Turner River.
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Re: Canoe Advice
Mangrove tunnel, Turner River, Everglades. If anyone comes down to South Florida, and is interested in paddling some of these great canoe trails, let me know. Always up for a paddle.
- Randy in Maine
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Re: Canoe Advice
I will keep that in mind.
I need to do more canoeing. It is good for the soul.
I need to do more canoeing. It is good for the soul.
79 VW Bus
- glasseye
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Re: Canoe Advice
What? WHAT?Amskeptic wrote:.
Reminds me of those Sprinter van conversion people idly gossiping within earshot, "above all, do not get a VW Westfalia, way too unstable in the wind, and will ultimately piss off everyone on the long hill."
Colin
You talking to MEEEE???? Especially since my sorta white-knuckled experience following Road Warrior that one time in The Gorge? Huh?
Ackchooly, I was driving across Saskatchewan a few weeks ago and it was blowing 60, gusting to 100 kph. Now THAT was white knuckles time. There were semis overturned on the median. I fetched up right against a Bed Bath and Beyond and spent a sleepless night listening to it howl. Frito is nothing if not a big sail. But man, does he love tailwinds.
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Paul Wolfowitz, speaking of Iraq.
Paul Wolfowitz, speaking of Iraq.
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Way down upon the Suwannee River...
Cruising and camping on the Suwannee River last week.