Differential Side Seals
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Differential Side Seals
Many of us have drooling transaxles at the center ribs under the CVs. It is an easy diagnosis if your transaxle is not hidden under decades of caked-on dirt and undercoating.
Step 1) Clean the area very well. I used a screwdriver to chip the caked-on dirt off dry (much easier to sweep up than attacking it with solvents). Wipe down your CV joints very clean and get the insides of the screws with a small screwdriver. Then I used a water-based spray degreaser (Purple Power) and a trip to the local carwash to get the minor remaining crud out of the crevasses.
Step 2) Take down just the inside CV joint on the side you are working on. Plastic bag it if you are enjoying Santa Ana winds in the sandy desert. Loosen only a 1/2 turn the two phillips screws that hold the side cover lock plate. Wipe out the inside of the drive flange until you can see the blue rubber cap. Stab it in the middle and get a screwdriver inside the center and find a pry point to pull it off (it is metal framed).
Step 3) You must remove the flange retaining circlip, it is exactly like a CV hub circlip, but in a less accessible location. An expanding circlip plier will make this easier. Use two large flat bladed screwdrivers against the side cover retainer screws (Phillips) and pry the flange off the differential drive shaft. Oil will now pour out, just put a tray under it, we like this oil leaking out to help keep the differential bearings clean.
Step 4) Even with all of your preparatory cleaning, you still have a mess. Do NOT clean this side cover lock plate! Just remove it with caution:
Step 5) This is an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have. It is contaminated with grit (arrow points to threat of cataclysm):
Pull out the dust seal (dust?) taking care to not allow it to get away from you and flop or catapault any muck onto the driveshaft or into the differential bearing:
This is the offending side cover seal. You can see that even with the dust seal, dirt can get in there deep. Wipe it radially away and downward from the inside. Not nutso hospital clean, just get rid of the surface crud, visible here:
Step 6) With your two largest regular blade screwdrivers, pry the side cover seal out. It will require a careful application of force. Do not jab the screwdrivers in the hole indiscriminately. Just catch the metal of the seal and pry out with both screwdrivers equally. The bottom of the side cover is a decent fulcrum for your screwdrivers:
Here you can see the differential roller bearing-that-must-remain-scrupulously-clean, behind the weird split washer that looks like it was bent due to some horrible impending failure. Just make sure that this washer remains with the smaller side towards the bearing. It actually serves as a "wavy washer" to keep the flange pushing against the circlip:
Slapped back in the hole:
Notice how hidden it appears once it is in place:
Step 7)
*clean the dust seal, taking care to scrape out the valleys so they can enjoy a whole new era of preventing road splash from reaching your new side cover seals,
*clean and tap flat the circlip you pried out (if you bent it up dead, find a spare CV circlip)
*clean the plastic spacer and the lock plate (whose paint may shed off in plasticky-looking shards)
*clean the machined, CV-facing side of the flange, but leave a nice sheen of grease on the outside surface, like a seasoned cast iron skillet, to prevent rust
*stuff the differential driveshaft/bearing area with a paper towel (that will quickly load up with transaxle oil, good) and clean the side cover all the way out past the lock plate retaining screw holes.
Step 8 ) Place the new side cover seal in the opening with your hand to make sure it is true:
I have a nightmare sandrail style seal that I may never be able to remove ever again, it is twice the thickness of the stock seal:
Tap into place with a 46mm axle nut socket. We are using this big socket not to get a dead center knock-it-in, but to allow us to have plenty of contact area between the wall of the socket and the edge of the seal as we tap it in. I have received word that if you hit it dead center the seal will bend inward at the center. As a matter of fact, any seal needs to be driven in at the outside walls. Just make it flush with opening, or slightly (1/2 mm) protruding if you also have miles and miles of extra sealing depth like my sand seal and would like to have a more positive contact with the dust seal when you cinch down the phillips screws in Step 9:
Here is my seal installed with a millimeter protrusion:
Step 9) Slap the clean dust seal in the hole and follow it with the plastic sleeve and lockplate. Screw down the phillips screws to "snug +"
Step 10) Apply a coat of moly grease to the sealing surface of the flange and the splines in the middle. Slide onto the differential drive shaft splines and tap into position with a 36mm socket:
The best method to then get the circlip on is to set the open end of the circlip against the splines of the differential driveshaft. Apply the ends of the expanding plier to the edges of the circlip while resting it lightly against the driveshaft. Firmly hold your other hand's fingers to the inside radius of the circlip and be ready to push down hard as you pry open the edges of the circlip with the pliers. It will dutifully slide over the end of the driveshaft. Drive it into its groove with a screwdriver blade and make sure it is home (the edges should be as close as they were before you tried to get it off)
Step 11) Install new blue cap with flat surface out.
Step 12) Ready to reinstall the CV and notice that cleanliness is good:
Installed and Complete. No more drooling gear oil mucking up the transaxle and misting the engine.
Step 13) Replenish transaxle oil, right?
Wrong.
Do the other side now THEN replenish transaxle oil, to the bottom of the fill line.
Step 1) Clean the area very well. I used a screwdriver to chip the caked-on dirt off dry (much easier to sweep up than attacking it with solvents). Wipe down your CV joints very clean and get the insides of the screws with a small screwdriver. Then I used a water-based spray degreaser (Purple Power) and a trip to the local carwash to get the minor remaining crud out of the crevasses.
Step 2) Take down just the inside CV joint on the side you are working on. Plastic bag it if you are enjoying Santa Ana winds in the sandy desert. Loosen only a 1/2 turn the two phillips screws that hold the side cover lock plate. Wipe out the inside of the drive flange until you can see the blue rubber cap. Stab it in the middle and get a screwdriver inside the center and find a pry point to pull it off (it is metal framed).
Step 3) You must remove the flange retaining circlip, it is exactly like a CV hub circlip, but in a less accessible location. An expanding circlip plier will make this easier. Use two large flat bladed screwdrivers against the side cover retainer screws (Phillips) and pry the flange off the differential drive shaft. Oil will now pour out, just put a tray under it, we like this oil leaking out to help keep the differential bearings clean.
Step 4) Even with all of your preparatory cleaning, you still have a mess. Do NOT clean this side cover lock plate! Just remove it with caution:
Step 5) This is an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have. It is contaminated with grit (arrow points to threat of cataclysm):
Pull out the dust seal (dust?) taking care to not allow it to get away from you and flop or catapault any muck onto the driveshaft or into the differential bearing:
This is the offending side cover seal. You can see that even with the dust seal, dirt can get in there deep. Wipe it radially away and downward from the inside. Not nutso hospital clean, just get rid of the surface crud, visible here:
Step 6) With your two largest regular blade screwdrivers, pry the side cover seal out. It will require a careful application of force. Do not jab the screwdrivers in the hole indiscriminately. Just catch the metal of the seal and pry out with both screwdrivers equally. The bottom of the side cover is a decent fulcrum for your screwdrivers:
Here you can see the differential roller bearing-that-must-remain-scrupulously-clean, behind the weird split washer that looks like it was bent due to some horrible impending failure. Just make sure that this washer remains with the smaller side towards the bearing. It actually serves as a "wavy washer" to keep the flange pushing against the circlip:
Slapped back in the hole:
Notice how hidden it appears once it is in place:
Step 7)
*clean the dust seal, taking care to scrape out the valleys so they can enjoy a whole new era of preventing road splash from reaching your new side cover seals,
*clean and tap flat the circlip you pried out (if you bent it up dead, find a spare CV circlip)
*clean the plastic spacer and the lock plate (whose paint may shed off in plasticky-looking shards)
*clean the machined, CV-facing side of the flange, but leave a nice sheen of grease on the outside surface, like a seasoned cast iron skillet, to prevent rust
*stuff the differential driveshaft/bearing area with a paper towel (that will quickly load up with transaxle oil, good) and clean the side cover all the way out past the lock plate retaining screw holes.
Step 8 ) Place the new side cover seal in the opening with your hand to make sure it is true:
I have a nightmare sandrail style seal that I may never be able to remove ever again, it is twice the thickness of the stock seal:
Tap into place with a 46mm axle nut socket. We are using this big socket not to get a dead center knock-it-in, but to allow us to have plenty of contact area between the wall of the socket and the edge of the seal as we tap it in. I have received word that if you hit it dead center the seal will bend inward at the center. As a matter of fact, any seal needs to be driven in at the outside walls. Just make it flush with opening, or slightly (1/2 mm) protruding if you also have miles and miles of extra sealing depth like my sand seal and would like to have a more positive contact with the dust seal when you cinch down the phillips screws in Step 9:
Here is my seal installed with a millimeter protrusion:
Step 9) Slap the clean dust seal in the hole and follow it with the plastic sleeve and lockplate. Screw down the phillips screws to "snug +"
Step 10) Apply a coat of moly grease to the sealing surface of the flange and the splines in the middle. Slide onto the differential drive shaft splines and tap into position with a 36mm socket:
The best method to then get the circlip on is to set the open end of the circlip against the splines of the differential driveshaft. Apply the ends of the expanding plier to the edges of the circlip while resting it lightly against the driveshaft. Firmly hold your other hand's fingers to the inside radius of the circlip and be ready to push down hard as you pry open the edges of the circlip with the pliers. It will dutifully slide over the end of the driveshaft. Drive it into its groove with a screwdriver blade and make sure it is home (the edges should be as close as they were before you tried to get it off)
Step 11) Install new blue cap with flat surface out.
Step 12) Ready to reinstall the CV and notice that cleanliness is good:
Installed and Complete. No more drooling gear oil mucking up the transaxle and misting the engine.
Step 13) Replenish transaxle oil, right?
Wrong.
Do the other side now THEN replenish transaxle oil, to the bottom of the fill line.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- dtrumbo
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Mill Creek, WA
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! My Beetle drips from this very spot and I was convinced I had to have the transaxle completely rebuilt to stop the leak. Now I know, thanks to you, that I can do this repair myself. Where did you find the new seals and caps? I've looked around and have come up short which furthered my assumption I had to have this repair done professionally.
- Dick
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
Two new (sand) seals and two new caps cost me $12.00 cash no tax here in Yuma AZ at the feverish sandrail offroad buggy shop. I believe there are listings in our favorite catalogues, but if not, ask Darryl.dtrumbo wrote:Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! My Beetle drips from this very spot and I was convinced I had to have the transaxle completely rebuilt to stop the leak. Now I know, thanks to you, that I can do this repair myself. Where did you find the new seals and caps? I've looked around and have come up short which furthered my assumption I had to have this repair done professionally.
Colinyerwlecome
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
Are you trying to make sure my bus stays off the road another week?
Thanks. I was so tempted to loosen that plate with the funky plastic thing under it. Later. Sounds like I want a replacement funky plastic thing first.
neal
Thanks. I was so tempted to loosen that plate with the funky plastic thing under it. Later. Sounds like I want a replacement funky plastic thing first.
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
You can remove it now. Helps you to clean thoroughly before you muck up the internals with your surgery. There are ways to get nasty seals out with a chisel, but after seeing your bell housing , I am not sure I want to load up your wagon with hair-trigger howitzers.ruckman101 wrote:Are you trying to make sure my bus stays off the road another week?
Thanks. I was so tempted to loosen that plate with the funky plastic thing under it. Later. Sounds like I want a replacement funky plastic thing first.
neal
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
- Location: Up next to a volcano.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
I'm thinking it would be a good idea to run this procedure on my used transaxle going into the ghia. Already committed to the input shaft seal. Hope that was the correct term.
I have the caps for inside the flange, so I guess I still need the side cover seals, dust seal and plastic spacers?
neal
I have the caps for inside the flange, so I guess I still need the side cover seals, dust seal and plastic spacers?
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
- hambone
- Post-Industrial Non-Secular Mennonite
- Location: Portland, Ore.
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
I did this procedure with Colin a few years back. Eh it still weeps oil, but not enough to lower the level. Worn parts...but hey at least it's not serious.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
So if we don't have it, is that a sign that someone was in there previously?…an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have.
That super-sand-seal was a bear to drive in compared to other seals I've done.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
The absence of the intermediate dust seal is supposed to be for the later buses where the factory was taking parts off right and left to "save money".asiab3 wrote:So if we don't have it, is that a sign that someone was in there previously?…an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have.
That super-sand-seal was a bear to drive in compared to other seals I've done.
If yours is an early bus, and the transaxle has been rebuilt or dorked with, you might not have one.
Yes, the sand seal is a tough one, and we both best hope it is a solid reliable long-lasting seal . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
Trans mounts have dealership undercoating all over them, which makes me think it's never been out. That being said, the old side seal had an Audi logo on it; I haven't seen that on any other original parts on this bus yet. The old seal also had an 091 part number, which makes me think it was replaced at some time.Amskeptic wrote:The absence of the intermediate dust seal is supposed to be for the later buses where the factory was taking parts off right and left to "save money".asiab3 wrote:So if we don't have it, is that a sign that someone was in there previously?…an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have.
That super-sand-seal was a bear to drive in compared to other seals I've done.
If yours is an early bus, and the transaxle has been rebuilt or dorked with, you might not have one.
Yes, the sand seal is a tough one, and we both best hope it is a solid reliable long-lasting seal . . .
Colin
I enjoyed the job overall, so I might source a standard size seal for the other side in the name of science. Now we have more time for ball joint boots and paint chips in a few weeks hmmm?
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
If we are talking about the same parts, the 091 prefix does not work on an 002 transaxle. The CV flange has a 42mm diameter on the 002s, and a 45mm diameter on the 091s.asiab3 wrote: The old seal also had an 091 part number, which makes me think it was replaced at some time.
The "dust seal" or whatever they call it, doesn't seem to show up in the Bentley exploded picture, but is supposed to be a 002 prefix and covers all IRS transaxles. Need research.
Ayep. Especially the ball joint boots. I am happy to leave you windshieldless if it comes to stopping rust on the windshield channel. Have rust-catalyzing primer!asiab3 wrote: Now we have more time for ball joint boots and paint chips in a few weeks hmmm?
Robbie
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
Apologies, only the plastic cover had the 091 part number-Amskeptic wrote:If we are talking about the same parts, the 091 prefix does not work on an 002 transaxle. The CV flange has a 42mm diameter on the 002s, and a 45mm diameter on the 091s.asiab3 wrote: The old seal also had an 091 part number, which makes me think it was replaced at some time.
The "dust seal" or whatever they call it, doesn't seem to show up in the Bentley exploded picture, but is supposed to be a 002 prefix and covers all IRS transaxles. Need research.
Exact number as this guy:
http://www.germansupply.com/home/custom ... 303&page=6
--
Some thoughts that I had that may help or even intrigue those about to attempt this:
- I could not get two screwdrivers to get enough bite on the flange to pull it off without stressing the plastic cover, so I went the GermanSupply pictorial route and used this overly-expensive puller I bought last year that I can't return. Stack an 18mm socket and a broken window crank handle under the puller for extra reach. Your milage may vary.
- My 46mm socket seemed small for the seal, so I got it started with it, but had to finish the drive with a 1/2 inch socket extension (female end to the seal, male end to the mallet) and do several hundred light taps circling around the perimeter of the seal. I didn't like the way the large socket would bend the seal inward.
- If you bend your cir clip slightly coming out, it will go back in but it will not seat properly. I'm guessing we do not want that. I feel like it should fit comfortably in the groove, with the circumference equal around the perimeter. My left side clip wouldn't QUITE seal all the way, so when my frustrated blood-starved arm muscles said "THAT WILL WORK FINE LETS GO" I had to channel my inner Heinz and take the clip back out to inspect it. Yep. Bent. A quick bend and it was perfectly flat once again.
- Make sure you have a 17mm fill/drain plug device before you do this. Now I'm biking around San Fernando Valley trying to find one to finish and drive to work in San Diego tomorrow.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
I used the phillips screws that hold the plastic retainer as my fulcrums.asiab3 wrote: - I could not get two screwdrivers to get enough bite on the flange to pull it off without stressing the plastic cover,
I will edit the copy. "use your 46mm socket in a circular manner to hit the edge of the seal with as much surface area as possible." It was the large radius that I was after, not hitting the whole seal dead center.asiab3 wrote: - My 46mm socket seemed small for the seal, so I got it started with it, but had to finish the drive with a 1/2 inch socket extension (female end to the seal, male end to the mallet) and do several hundred light taps circling around the perimeter of the seal. I didn't like the way the large socket would bend the seal inward.
Heck, I got a couple right here . . .asiab3 wrote: - Make sure you have a 17mm fill/drain plug device before you do this. Now I'm biking around San Fernando Valley trying to find one to finish and drive to work in San Diego tomorrow.
Robbie
ColinOnRockInUtahGale
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- chachi
- Old School!
- Location: ne pdx, or.
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
so you're using 189c in this, no? Weddle lists that and a plain 189, the difference being the height, of course. if you could have your choice...?
1974 transporter panel, 2.0 dual solex
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3
1991 vanagon NAHT, RJE 2.3
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
- Status: Offline
Re: Differential Side Seals
That looks to be correct. I tried to install the 189c (17mm, THICK) on my '69 and they were a chore. A friend and I put the 189 (10mm, regular) seals on his '68 and they went in much easier. Both kept the output shafts dry.chachi wrote:so you're using 189c in this, no? Weddle lists that and a plain 189, the difference being the height, of course. if you could have your choice...?
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.