Spark plugs

Bus, Microbus, Transporter, Station Wagon, Vanagon, Camper, Pick-Up.

Moderators: Sluggo, Amskeptic

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Thu May 01, 2014 9:33 pm

Spark plugs.JPG
Just pulled them after ~ 9000+ miles. Guess I didn't tighten 1 & 3 down tight enough...not much effort getting them loose. All in all they look pretty uniform. I'll see if I can get some better shots. Plugs are NGK B5ES gap at .028. Jetting is in my sig.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Xelmon
Sedna of VW lovers
Location: LA or Portland, OR
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by Xelmon » Fri May 02, 2014 2:41 pm

That is pretty good indeed, looks like you're right where the engine likes it!

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri May 02, 2014 6:14 pm

Will only allow 1 pic per post??? Here goes cylinder #1 Just got my LM-2 in the mail today, first chance I get I'll post up the results. But I feel I'm pretty darn close. The pics are actually appear slightly darker around the rim than in person. At the base of the ceramic where it meets the steel I can faintly see some discoloration ever so slightly (not white like midway up the plug towards the nose).
Attachments
Cylinder #1 plug.JPG
Cylinder #1 plug.JPG (33.32 KiB) Viewed 4336 times
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri May 02, 2014 6:14 pm

Cylinder #2
Attachments
Cylinder #2 plug.JPG
Cylinder #2 plug.JPG (39.13 KiB) Viewed 4336 times
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri May 02, 2014 6:15 pm

Cylinder #3
Attachments
Cylinder #3 plug.JPG
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri May 02, 2014 6:15 pm

Cylinder #4
Attachments
Cylinder #4 plug.JPG
Cylinder #4 plug.JPG (35.68 KiB) Viewed 4336 times
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Bleyseng
IAC Addict!
Location: Seattle again
Contact:
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Re: Spark plugs

Post by Bleyseng » Fri May 02, 2014 7:26 pm

From my armchair I'd say you are a tad rich but within "Normal". Interesting to see what you get with a LM2.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Fri May 02, 2014 7:51 pm

What range should I shoot for. I'm thinking 13:1- 13:5...for a bus? If you had to guess Bley what do you think the LM-2 will say? Your saying a tad rich...so I'll start by saying it's somewhere between 12.8 - 13:0. Can't wait for the LM-2 reading.

One other thing...I to am running with an S&S 4-1 header. I have a section between the collector and quiet pack muffler that is roughly 5 - 6 inches long. Where should I weld the bung in? I looked from underneath but I don't think I have the room due to the other exhaust pipes. Also you have any suggestions as to where I should run the wires for the LM-2 (given there length).

You have any pictures with the bung installed?
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Bleyseng
IAC Addict!
Location: Seattle again
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by Bleyseng » Sat May 03, 2014 2:48 am

That sounds like a good spot for it. The official reading of VW/Porsche for the 914 was 13.7 to 1 at a cruise 2000-2500rpm in 4th gear with a light load. Meaning tooling down the road in 4th giving it the gas without any coasting up a slight grade.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Xelmon
Sedna of VW lovers
Location: LA or Portland, OR
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by Xelmon » Sat May 03, 2014 11:12 pm

Tris also quoted 13.1 - 13.5 way back when as the very healthy range for VW's, mainly to keep the head temps lower.

All of those plugs look fine. =)

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Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: Spark plugs

Post by Amskeptic » Mon May 05, 2014 5:20 am

72Hardtop wrote:What range should I shoot for. I'm thinking 13:1- 13:5...for a bus?
If you had to guess Bley what do you think the LM-2 will say? Your saying a tad rich...so I'll start by saying it's somewhere between 12.8 - 13:0. Can't wait for the LM-2 reading.
This is a difficult question. You will find numbers all over the map. We can only compare at specific points that we all share, like:
Full Throttle At Torque Peak
Full Throttle At Horsepower Peak
Off Throttle At Above RPMs.

Do not be surprised to see the mixture leaning out as you move from the torque to horsepower peak, this is normal. Your best power comes in at 12 to 12.5. You want to have the correct fuel mixture when the engine is working the hardest, then see if you can lean it at low load/low rpm.

Do you have a CHT gauge?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Bleyseng
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Location: Seattle again
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Re: Spark plugs

Post by Bleyseng » Mon May 05, 2014 8:34 am

Agreed that 12.5 at Full throttle at hp peak about 4000 rpms is a important marker! Cruising down the freeway at 65-70 at half throttle is also important but can be all over the place
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Mon May 05, 2014 9:29 am

I've found that in a bus ones foot is generally in it more than say a bug, 914 or Ghia. Not often one is going down the highway at 65mph+ with 1/2 or less throttle in a bus. On the flip side here is another picture of the above #3 opened up...no that's not a shadow at the base of the plug. What do you guys feel/think?
Attachments
opened plug.jpg
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

User avatar
Bleyseng
IAC Addict!
Location: Seattle again
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by Bleyseng » Mon May 05, 2014 9:43 am

As I said, checking the Cruise "Part load" setting is important as we drive a lot at 2500-3500 rpms with half throttle with a load not coasting. This is where you should be at the 13.7 setting. Find a long slight uphill slope of the freeway and do your check there for this setting or a city street where it is a long slight uphill grade. I use a section of Beacon Ave and then jump on the freeway at Columbian Way going south up the long hill. You will see "off throttle" the AFR will lean out to 16 or higher to 1 which is fine as there is no load. Its that when you are placing a constant load on the engine the AFR must be right. Try it.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

72Hardtop
Old School!
Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
Status: Offline

Re: Spark plugs

Post by 72Hardtop » Mon May 05, 2014 9:58 am

Thanks Bley...I know the spot your talking about. I get this LM-2 hooked up we should get together. I'm over in Renton Highlands. I'm going to the exhaust shop on Wednesday and have them weld the bung in for me.

No CHT gauge for me...not much of one for excitement. I believe if built properly and not skimping on quality one should end up with an engine that should garner at least 120,000 miles before rebuild time. At least that's how it's worked out for me the last 25+ years.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

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