Ron Paul's 2012 Campaign

[Amskeptic]

http://www.theendrun.com/huntsman-compl ... ainst-paul

So the byline of the above site is:
Research, news, and analysis pertaining to the "end run around national sovereignty" being perpetrated by elitist totalitarians (collectivists).

It is a complete cold stop for me.
Colin

[Lanval]

http://www.theendrun.com/huntsman-compl ... ainst-paul

So the byline of the above site is:
Research, news, and analysis pertaining to the "end run around national sovereignty" being perpetrated by elitist totalitarians (collectivists).

It is a complete cold stop for me.
Colin

Perhaps you'll find this source more trustworthy;

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/07/politics/ ... topstories

Paul's attempts to distance himself are sketchy at best:

"Of course I denounce it ... but people do that, and they do it in all campaigns"

Unimpressive ethics to be sure.

Michael L

[BellePlaine]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... to-blacks/

"True racism in this country is in the judicial system," Paul said, "the percentage of people who use drugs are about the same with blacks and whites. And yet the blacks are arrested way disproportionately."

"They're prosecuted and imprisoned way disproportionately," he continued, "they get the death penalty way disproportionately. How many times have you seen a white rich person get the electric chair or get, you know, execution?"

"If we truly want to be concerned about racism, you ought to look at a few of those issues and look at the drug laws, which are being so unfairly enforced," said Paul, who is known for his libertarian views on U.S. drug policy.

[steve74baywin]

Ron Paul has the highest ethics of any candidate we have seen in years.
Them making an issue over those letters shows that is the worst they can do.
When you have a man that stands behind sound Liberty Principles and the Constitution
over decades, preaching the same message and voting accordingly for all those years is just mind blowing. There hasn't been a candidate in my life time that has had such a squeaking clean record that shows the highest level of integrity. When people can close their eyes to all the shit their candidate has done and points to something so trivial as this, their true colors shine.
If someone compares principles and voting record Ron Paul is the only one even worthy to remain standing.
Those letter at very best only show that he is still human.
Most of the candidates people have been voting for show fraud, lying, outright stealing, etc, etc.
This is really showing me how people can be led.
Actions like this show me conditioned people.
This reminds me of how people have been conditioned to say Libertarians are selfish, when the opposite is true.
How when asked why we are in Iraq, people shouted back at me "remember 9/11".
How when I mention that we should have Free market capitalism they say look to the previous years and see that it doesn't work, yet we don't have that system and when people mentioned that we should go to it in the 50's they say no we can't go to it, it doesn't work, and we didn't go to it yet they say we have had it and it is to blame.
Or when people tell me to stop my complaining, our system allows us to vote in the man who will do what we want, yet when I point out how come he did the opposite of what we want and what he said he would do people say, there are other men who know more, but when I point to these other men who control the gov they say, no, not true, vote for someone and he will do what you want, but when he doesn't it is because others know better, so when I say others control, they so no they don't, you get to vote your man in.
Sounds like people are trying to feed us BS and lies to support an ideal.

[Velokid1]

Those letter at very best only show that he is still human.

The last remaining non-reptilean in government, eh?

This reminds me of how people have been conditioned to say Libertarians are selfish, when the opposite is true.

Doesn't it also take conditioning to arrive at the belief that all selfish people need to do to cure their selfishness is to declare themselves Libertarians? Even within the pool of modern-day Libertarians, there exist selfish people who attempt to use Libertarian ideals to perpetuate their selfishness, just as assholes everywhere use any supposed set of "ideals" to perpetuate whatever their nefarious agenda is.

Ideals being hijacked and misused to put forth a selfish agenda isn't something reserved only for Democrats, McDonald's, and the NRA.

[steve74baywin]

Those letter at very best only show that he is still human.

The last remaining non-reptilean in government, eh?

Last remaining non-something.

This reminds me of how people have been conditioned to say Libertarians are selfish, when the opposite is true.

Doesn't it also take conditioning to arrive at the belief that all selfish people need to do to cure their selfishness is to declare themselves Libertarians?

Perhaps, but more than likely it is someone having an odd way of perceiving or reading things into something, or assuming. I've never heard anyone state anything like what you just said. Where did you ever hear that "selfish people need to do to cure their selfishness is to declare themselves Libertarians"??? I never heard that anywhere. So it would take more than conditioning to arrive at such a belief. Do you know anyone who has arrived at that belief? Like I said, I've never heard of that.

Even within the pool of modern-day Libertarians, there exist selfish people who attempt to use Libertarian ideals to perpetuate their selfishness, just as assholes everywhere use any supposed set of "ideals" to perpetuate whatever their nefarious agenda is.

That might be so, but they'd have to be stupid. They won't get there way at all if we got a Libertarian system. They'd have to care for themselves or be nice and civil enough for their neighbor to help them. So if a selfish person thinks voting Libertarian is going to help him to be selfish, he is nuts. Usually the selfish people try to vote in the group that they think will get them what they want, and this is done through force and guns.....The selfish person choices the force/gun method, obviously, he is so selfish he will use a gun to get his way.

Ideals being hijacked and misused to put forth a selfish agenda isn't something reserved only for Democrats, McDonald's, and the NRA.

True, but like I said above, anyone with some clear thinking would see that they would get more of their selfish desires achieved by supporting one of the two major parties that use force to take from others. Obviously a rich man realizes the advantages to using the government, just look at yearly income of Senators before running for office. These rich selfish men see the advantages of our rights violating system.

[Amskeptic]

Those letter at very best only show that he is still human.

The last remaining non-reptilean in government, eh?

This reminds me of how people have been conditioned to say Libertarians are selfish, when the opposite is true.

Doesn't it also take conditioning to arrive at the belief that all selfish people need to do to cure their selfishness is to declare themselves Libertarians? Even within the pool of modern-day Libertarians, there exist selfish people who attempt to use Libertarian ideals to perpetuate their selfishness, just as assholes everywhere use any supposed set of "ideals" to perpetuate whatever their nefarious agenda is.

Ideals being hijacked and misused to put forth a selfish agenda isn't something reserved only for Democrats, McDonald's, and the NRA.

Thank-you thank-you.
Colin

[Velokid1]

Doesn't it also take conditioning to arrive at the belief that all selfish people need to do to cure their selfishness is to declare themselves Libertarians?

I can't believe I'm bothering, but here goes...

Perhaps, but more than likely it is someone having an odd way of perceiving or reading things into something, or assuming. I've never heard anyone state anything like what you just said. Where did you ever hear that "selfish people need to do to cure their selfishness is to declare themselves Libertarians"??? I never heard that anywhere. So it would take more than conditioning to arrive at such a belief. Do you know anyone who has arrived at that belief? Like I said, I've never heard of that.

Really? You've never heard that? Anywhere?

This reminds me of how people have been conditioned to say Libertarians are selfish, when the opposite is true.

You are saying here that people have been "conditioned" to say that all Libertarians are selfish.
You then say that the opposite of that is true.
One would assume then that you are saying that all Libertarians are selfless.

If you did indeed mean to say that, I am pointing out that not all Libertarians are selfish, nor are all Libertarians selfless. All Libertarians are not the same. No group of people are all the same. You frequently speak as if all people are one thing or another. All people from X group are conditioned. All people from Y group cannot comprehend what you write. All people in your group support the same things you do.

It's so cliche that it really, really doesn't need to be said at all, ever again, but... the world is not black and white. When you speak as if it is, the idea you are presenting is that you don't know the first thing about this world. Because holy shit, is this world complex! Have you ever looked at a leaf under a microscope? One square millimeter of plant tissue! Complicated as a motherfucker! And there are a LOT of square millimeters on this planet.

And if you don't mean to imply the world is black and white, well then for godsake, STOP using language that makes that implication!

Even within the pool of modern-day Libertarians, there exist...[snip]...assholes

That might be so, but they'd have to be stupid.

Bingo! Stupid people are commonly assholes. And guess what... they exist everywhere, in equal numbers. Even in the Art Bell Fan Club. And that... was my point.

Ideals being hijacked and misused to put forth a selfish agenda isn't something reserved only for Democrats, McDonald's, and the NRA.

True, but like I said above, anyone with some clear thinking would see that they would get more of their selfish desires achieved by supporting one of the two major parties that use force to take from others.

Here's what you don't get about assholes hijacking good things: It doesn't matter what TRUE GOOD lies at the heart of the good thing they hijack. They'll hijack the damn thing anyway! And those lofty good principles that were the heart of that good thing? Gutted, burnt out, ruined. That's how it works. And Libertarianism is not immune to that. People will wear the Libertarian uniform and a big Cheshire Cat smile and say all the right things about liberty! and freedom! and reptiles!... and all the while they will be milking. that. thing. for. every. damn. penny.

Ron Paul will be slam dunking on Nike commercials and Nissan will come out with a new SUV shaped like a piggy bank that paves the road ahead of you with your own pennies as you drive along... and then sweeps them right back up so nobody else can drive on your penny-road. And the same fat guys in suits that made $120,000 off of every home loan they made in the mid-2000s only to take back people's homes five years later? Yup, same guys that will be raking in the billions while chest bumping with Ron Paul on national TV.

There's no good team and bad team. It's all one team, and there are assholes amongst us.

[Velokid1]

I have a lot of respect for you Steve, so hopefully you don't take too much offense at this. I was in a mood to take a piss and have a little fun.

[steve74baywin]

You are saying here that people have been "conditioned" to say that all Libertarians are selfish.
You then say that the opposite of that is true.
One would assume then that you are saying that all Libertarians are selfless.

Yep, here in lies the problem. One would assume it in error.
Just because I point out how when a bunch of people parrot back a one line comment that "Libertarians are selfish" that has been a catchy phrase that was conditioned in, this does not imply the opposite. That is an assumption. Just because people wrongly call this the party people go to when selfish and I say that is wrong that does not mean that all Libertarians have no shred of selfishness. It just means that the statement is wrong, not that the exact opposite with no exceptions must be true.

I have a lot of respect for you Steve, so hopefully you don't take too much offense at this.

Take the above as from me to you when you read the following.
I have noticed from you lately that you keep taking something that could have many meanings and assume that the person is meaning just one of the many meanings and you call them out for assuming one thing, when in fact they didn't assume the one thing you just assumed that they assumed the one thing. This happened a few weeks ago in another thread.
This today is similar,
me stating that it is wrong to say the Libertarian party is one where selfish people go doesn't mean that I'm now saying anyone who is Libertarian has nothing selfish in them at all. There is an assumption here, and it is wrong, but that wrong assumption has been made by you.
It is sorta sad when others misuse a statement and blanket people in a party a set way and then when the error is pointed out it gets thrown back on us.

It really is quite interesting.

If you did indeed mean to say that, I am pointing out that not all Libertarians are selfish, nor are all Libertarians selfless. All Libertarians are not the same. No group of people are all the same.

I think in the last few months you called Libertarians selfish, now you see things a little clearer. Why did you call Libertarian or Limited gov types selfish a few months ago?

Here's what you don't get about assholes hijacking good things: It doesn't matter what TRUE GOOD lies at the heart of the good thing they hijack. They'll hijack the damn thing anyway! And those lofty good principles that were the heart of that good thing? Gutted, burnt out, ruined. That's how it works. And Libertarianism is not immune to that. People will wear the Libertarian uniform and a big Cheshire Cat smile and say all the right things about liberty! and freedom! and reptiles!... and all the while they will be milking. that. thing. for. every. damn. penny.

This is what you miss.
The system we speak of, Libertarian, limited gov, would make it almost impossible for it to matter what Asses get in it. If we keep it true to it's principles, which will always be a battle, as your pointing out, but, the battle will be to keeping it correct. What we have today is wide open for asses to run it. This system that threw the guidelines out the window and violates rights already is the result of what happens when Asses get into it. So yes, asses will get into a system, what we have now is the results of that. Libertarian is correcting it back, eliminating the ability of the asses to make use of it. We will still have to watch for asses who will pervert it again trampling on rights and liberty. That is how it is done, they use the gov to trample on rights and liberties, and then we pay the price like now.
Instead of looking at us as Libertarians, look at it as (corrections to stop asses from running things).

[Amskeptic]

Yep, here in lies the problem. One would assume it in error.
Just because I point out how when a bunch of people parrot back a one line comment that "Libertarians are selfish" that has been a catchy phrase that was conditioned in, this does not imply the opposite. That is an assumption.

This reminds me of how people have been conditioned to say Libertarians are selfish, when the opposite is true.

People have been "conditioned"?

"The opposite is true."

Your tautologies, Steve, are all in your own head, you create arguments out of thin air so you can then slander actual other people here for "erroneous thinking". It is exhausting. It is wrong.
Colin

[steve74baywin]

People have been "conditioned"?

"The opposite is true."

Your tautologies, Steve, are all in your own head, you create arguments out of thin air so you can then slander actual other people here for "erroneous thinking". It is exhausting. It is wrong.
Colin

Colin, forgive me if I don't take this too seriously from the guy who thinks taking something from people via threat of jail and gun point isn't stealing, or as you said another time, you choose to not see the guns. That there is admitting to things being in your head that are in contrast to reality.
What is more exhausting is that you don't see your own part in this with answers to the gun pointing means of participation is that you choose to not see, therefore it doesn't exist, and this is suppose to be happily accepted by me.
And I am to call this clear logical thinking, rights aren't violated in us because you don't mind someone doing it too you?? Like your the decider for everyone, or perhaps you are just cheerleading and saying what you want other peoples responses to be.

[Velokid1]

If I weren't already tired of this, your posts would be comedy, Steve.

I have no doubt that there have been times I make incorrect assumptions about what others are trying to say, like all humans. It doesn't change the fact that you said that people think Libertarians are selfish but that the exact opposite is true. If you wanted to retract that statement, that would be fair. But to pretend it means something else is absurd and to accuse me of willfully misinterpreting your words... That really takes the cake.

My time is worth more than this. Ommmmmmmmmm...

[BellePlaine]

Back to Ron Paul...

I hope that this means something to OWS folks...


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/279783/ ... eserve.htm

[steve74baywin]

to accuse me of willfully misinterpreting your words... That really takes the cake.

My time is worth more than this. Ommmmmmmmmm...

I am going to think of you as Mr Assumption.
Where did I say you "willfully" misinterpreted? Once again, many reasons but you assumed I'm thinking you "willfully" did it. I think your having problems and issues and unknowingly did it again, not willfully. I would rather take this offline than continue here. I have some questions and concerns.

But Velo, It would be nice if would could discuss the issues again.
Did you ever answer BP's question? What changed your mind about Ron Paul?
And I have one, you said the RP letters don't matter to you, it is what he is saying on the campaign trail that you dislike. Care to share with us some of these things Ron Paul is saying that you dislike.
What you responded to me with the other day perhaps is the answer to BP's ?