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Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:08 pm
by Amskeptic
wcfvw69 wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:56 am
the vast majority of them suggested no higher than 10-30 weight if your engine isn't on it's last legs.

That is the latest conventional wisdom at work then.

My Lexus V-8 requires 10-30w. I put in 10-30 wt.
You know why? Because that is what they recommend *and* I have worked on those engines enough to know that a camshaft bearing clearance of .0008" damn well needs thinner oil.

The VW engineers suggested 30w in the summer and 20w in the winter for the 1970 bus. They warn against high speed driving with 10w oil if ambient temps climb above 32*F. That is pretty much it.

The later owners manuals do discuss multi-viscosity. There's 20-50! Damn, they recommend straight 40 for the highest ambient temperatures. They warn, again, not to do sustained high speed driving if the indicated viscosities are not sufficient. Apparently, anything above 50* ambient is too high for your chosen oil viscosity. Take a look:

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I have decades of hot highway driving and can hear my main bearing clearances open up (waaaay past anything the Lexus will ever see). If the "vast" majority you speak of knows something I don't about the critical oil wedge that must be maintained inside of a rapidly spinning bearing journal, by all means recommend that they get in touch with me to school my stupid ass.

Meanwhile, it is not all about oil temperature reading dick-sizing amongst the vast majority who do not know what they actually *need* for a happy hot long-lasting engine. See how it fills me with grave doubts to be intimidated by the vast majority?
Colin :bootyshake:

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:19 pm
by Amskeptic
Anyways, engine is done:

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Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:09 pm
by asiab3
Huh, I had a long reply typed up, then it disappeared. In a nutshell: We did more miles each in the last sixteen months than the "vast majority" will do in their ownership of a Volkswagen. Bill has the luxury of 8mm oil galleries on his Type 1 cars, which results in higher pressure at the expense of volume. And Chloe deserves a beautiful engine like that, considering the torment that awaits this summer.

See you in Portland for the annual "Robbie and Colin Come to Us" camp?

Robbie :pirate:

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:34 pm
by wcfvw69
Your engine looks real purty! :)

Listen;
I'm just glad I wasn't in your debate class with you. lol. No one is going to argue that there's probably no one in America today that puts more annual miles on his buses in a calendar year than you do. Couple that with the decades of bus pilotage under your belt and there ya go.

Robbie did hit a key point in my posts that I failed to mention. The argument for no more than 10-30 was for tight bearing clearances on single relief engines with the small oil galleries. It wasn't on the dual relief cases with the bigger 10mm(?) galleries.

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:08 am
by Amskeptic
Break-in occurs today on a test stand in Pensacola.
Praaaaaaay for my little compromised engine.
Colin

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:00 pm
by sgkent
Praaaaaaay for my little compromised engine
does "compromised" mean you cut corners, and didn't listen to advice again? I see a pattern here. Fortunately VW engines are tolerant. You'll be fine,

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:24 pm
by wcfvw69
Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:08 am
Break-in occurs today on a test stand in Pensacola.
Praaaaaaay for my little compromised engine.
Colin
Image

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:19 pm
by Amskeptic
sgkent wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:00 pm
Praaaaaaay for my little compromised engine
does "compromised" mean you cut corners, and didn't listen to advice again? I see a pattern here. Fortunately VW engines are tolerant. You'll be fine,


"Compromised" means engine balancers that take my money and eat the cheeks off the crankshaft but the balance is horrendous.

"Compromised" means the machine shop that did not press the valve seat insert all the way in and cracked the exhaust guide boss under the valve spring.

"Compromised" means the well-respected vendor who sold me "'race-ready' rods with new nuts" without new nuts.

Please remind me of the advice I did not listen to. Stop flogging my engines into the ground all over the country? That sounds like good advice. Did you already give me that advice?
Colin

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:24 pm
by Amskeptic
Here is the test stand:

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Inside the garage:

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Cranked about ten seconds for oil pressure light to go out. Filled the carburetor bowl through the air vent, engine started pretty much instantly. Here it is running at the ten minute mark:

Image


The movie I shot is too big for poor little Photobucket so that'll have to wait until I find a way to delete about 40 megabytes.

The first real disappointment is that the engine is not well-balanced. For $200.00, this is so not acceptable.

The filed cam gear left some pretty interesting aluminum residue in the oil change bucket at the 20 minute oil change, so I ran another oil fill through the engine for another 20 minutes while feeling out the vibration. The vibration is deep in the engine and it gets positively thrashy at about 3,000 rpm, you can't get a good focus on the top of the carburetor because it is vibrating so much. Changed the oil again, and this time the oil bucket (a white Motel 6 ice bucket) looked like the usual break-in.

Engine is now sitting in Naranja waiting to go back to Chloe in Atlanta.
Colin

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:52 pm
by dingo
I imagine that finding the best of 4 positions of the flywheel and the best of 6 of the pressure plate makes a big difference in balance and/or vibration.,..were you able to take those into account ?

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:48 am
by Amskeptic
dingo wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:52 pm
I imagine that finding the best of 4 positions of the flywheel and the best of 6 of the pressure plate makes a big difference in balance and/or vibration.,..were you able to take those into account ?
I had to follow the engine balancer's match marks for the flywheel-to-crankshaft, and the pressure plate-to-flywheel. I followed the directions.

The thing is, I am very familiar with flywheel imbalance and pressure plate imbalance. There is always a tell-tale vibration period right around 1,500 to 1,200 rpm as the engine comes back down to idle. That was absent. This thing just gets buzzy at 2,000 rpm and it gets thrashy at 3,000 rpm and above, deep in the heart of the engine.
Oy vey,
Colin

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:38 am
by airkooledchris
so what's next? are you planning to run it as is, or will you be taking it back apart to address these issues before trusting it on the big tour?

or is time up and it'll have to wait while you give Naranja one more trip?

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:31 pm
by hambone
Sorry to hear. Can you live with it?
My former engine was built the same way by a local shop, deep vibration at certain RPMs. Got about 40k miles before it became terrible.
It is not acceptable though, it will drive you crazy. Is the balancer in your town? Jet-setting lifestyle. Make him hear this engine.

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:15 pm
by Amskeptic
airkooledchris wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:38 am
so what's next? are you planning to run it as is, or will you be taking it back apart to address these issues before trusting it on the big tour?

or is time up and it'll have to wait while you give Naranja one more trip?
Great questions that I cannot answer.

I have one Hail Mary this Saturday that will help me answer your question. An adjustment to the pressure plate that will require another run on the test stand if my back can take it.
Colin

Re: Well, Good Grief

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:40 am
by asiab3
For what it's worth, I had a mediocre balance by SoCal's finest shops two years ago. Post Colorado, I had a HORRIFIC balance, after aligning all the dots. I shoved the generator one way, loosened the strap a little, shoved again, and snugged up the strap. As of right now, balance is better than it was before, though the generator strap is not very tight. What's the new engine like with the belt off?

Robbie