Athens, GA

Moderators: Amskeptic, Sluggo

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Athens, GA

Post by jimbear » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:31 pm

Well, I think I was the first out of Florida Itinerant stop of the 2017 loop. The primary issues were manifold gasket replacement and a stubborn #4 plug that would not come out for me. Colin arrived and after the requisite banter we dove into removing the exhaust system. I am glad I waited to do this with him. For starters, I would still be out there making a freaking mess of the whole thing. Second, I now know how to do it correctly, efficiently, and thoughtfully. While in the midst of that Colin spied that the brake booster elbow was off of the right manifold. That explained the no starting issue. We started the bus and Colin adjusted the mixture. We jumped in and went for a spin. More mixture fiddling. Bus ran quite well; ironically (wait for it) better that it probably ever has and quieter than it has ever been. Colin diagnosed a bad/missing shift rod bushing; we arrived home and replaced. Whilst I was removing the belly pan Colin started to look at #4 plug; it had been loosening up on its own over the past few months, no bueno. Short story shorter, he got the plug out and upon inspection of the hole determined the threads were shot! So, I will be pulling the engine and digging in. I am hoping to just get the thing fixed, ie. a time-sert. I'll inspect the heads, especially the valve guides, and hopefully will not need to go in further. This will be a much needed opportunity to clean/wax the engine bay, replace the fuel lines behind the firewall and inspect in there, address my fuel sender issue, and possibly get some body work done back there. So, bummer with a bright side. Hoping to get this done quickly so as to get some camping in.
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Posts: 22984
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:47 am
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:42 am

jimbear wrote:Well, I think I was the first out of Florida Itinerant stop of the 2017 loop. The primary issues were manifold gasket replacement and a stubborn #4 plug that would not come out for me.
Well hail, that was a day. Had to finish a Toyota's front wheel stud replacement, hack off the VW's upper muffler nuts with a dremel in painfully tight quarters, reinstall a stud, chase threads, file flanges, do all the little detail stuff to make an exhaust system happy, and we ended up with a Do Not Run recommendation? Yeah, with an Itinerant Air-Cooled Release of Liability Oral Agreement that went as follows:
"Hey Jim, mind if I FthisUBAR?"
"Nah."

Image


Image

It is a good solid VW and I look forward to getting this piffle of a setback done and gone . . .

Enjoyed visits from Hobug and greg in ga:

Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by jimbear » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:11 am

OK. So, the engine is out and the left carb and tin are off, although not in the "freshly out" pic. I am dismayed at what I have found. Maybe I am over-reacting. I have yet to figure out how to post pics here and will do a write-up in the Type 2 section when I figure it out. Until then, see The Samba post here. It is the 2/28 post...

Image
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by jimbear » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:22 am

I figured out how to do pics. Colin, should I put the write-up in the Type 2 zone or the Engine zone? I am guessing Type 2 zone
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Posts: 22984
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:47 am
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm

jimbear wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:22 am
I figured out how to do pics. Colin, should I put the write-up in the Type 2 zone or the Engine zone? I am guessing Type 2 zone
Right here, for fun.

Jim,

#4 has a Timesert spinning uselessly in the head. THAT is why the no-tightening-torque plug did not instantly blow out. You may be in trouble here if the hole is now bigger than a reliable repair (Timesert mandatory)

#3 may be because someone wrapped the inside of a socket with electrical tape to keep the plug from dropping out of the socket. Clean, inspect*, repair, and button er up.
Colin

* do you remember what I asked you to investigate, sure you do, compare all piston crowns for any major differences in wetness. If a cylinder is unduly wet, you need to do the valve guide test, then make a discretionary call on whether now is the time to go in deeper)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Posts: 1508
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:27 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by asiab3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:08 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm
#4 has a Timesert spinning uselessly in the head. THAT is why the no-tightening-torque plug did not instantly blow out. You may be in trouble here if the hole is now bigger than a reliable repair (Timesert mandatory)
Aaaaand for when you've just been rear-ended in Mancus, Colorado with a stripped insert:

http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html

:cyclopsani: Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Posts: 22984
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:47 am
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:44 am

asiab3 wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:08 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm
#4 has a Timesert spinning uselessly in the head. THAT is why the no-tightening-torque plug did not instantly blow out. You may be in trouble here if the hole is now bigger than a reliable repair (Timesert mandatory)
Aaaaand for when you've just been rear-ended in Mancus, Colorado with a stripped insert:

http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html

:cyclopsani: Robbie
WHO was rear-ended in Mancus Colorado?
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
asiab3
IAC Addict!
Posts: 1508
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:27 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by asiab3 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:42 am

Oh, me! Seconds after installing the first-sized time-sert with a dull tap that did not instill confidence in my result. I was terrified every time I stepped on the gas and really contributed to the combustion pressure, but those inserts can turn out to be pretty solid!

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by jimbear » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:40 am

Colin, let me know if I should start a thread in the Type 2 or Engine zones.

The engine is out. There is more update info, pics, and a few questions on The Samba here. This new work stars on Feb. 28, 2017--almost 4 years and one move ago! :salute:

This is the most recent question I have. To preface, I have been moving slow, taking my time to be organized and thoughtful, and also killing a huge honey-do list and rehabbing my deck during this spring break.

I am ready to pull the fan housing with alternator in (correct?). Will the oil filler tube need to come off first? I have to replace the gasket any way, so I guess it should just come off first. That being said, the engine is on the table with no access to the drain plug and I did not drain the oil before the pull. Can I just drain the oil by removing the filler tube? Also, are there any screws up under the engine that need to be removed to get the housing off? I do not recall seeing anything about that in the Bentley and found no threads anywhere specific to removing just the housing. Thanks... :compress:
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Posts: 22984
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:47 am
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:25 pm

jimbear wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:40 am
Colin, let me know if I should start a thread in the Type 2 or Engine zones.

The engine is out. There is more update info, pics, and a few questions on The Samba here. This new work stars on Feb. 28, 2017--almost 4 years and one move ago! :salute:

This is the most recent question I have. To preface, I have been moving slow, taking my time to be organized and thoughtful, and also killing a huge honey-do list and rehabbing my deck during this spring break.

I am ready to pull the fan housing with alternator in (correct?). Will the oil filler tube need to come off first? I have to replace the gasket any way, so I guess it should just come off first. That being said, the engine is on the table with no access to the drain plug and I did not drain the oil before the pull. Can I just drain the oil by removing the filler tube? Also, are there any screws up under the engine that need to be removed to get the housing off? I do not recall seeing anything about that in the Bentley and found no threads anywhere specific to removing just the housing. Thanks... :compress:
There are a bunch of dinky things you have to do to get the fan housing off, and I cannot go through them all here. You know the covers between the fan housing and the exchangers, held on with two screws each. The fan housing comes off easier with the exchangers removed first, then you don't have to pry the exchanger ducts to free the fan housing. As a matter of fact, you might be able to leave the oil fill pipe intact and negotiate the fan housing off without an oily mess. You know you have to snake the alternator harness through the r/s upper cylinder cover tin so it won't suddenly stop you as you are trying to get the housing off the four studs.

Thermostat cable has to be removed. You need to loosen the upper cylinder cover tin screws near the fan housing so it can slide out without BENDING STUFF. I don't know what to answer here. Dipstick boot. It separates as the fan housing leaves the fill pipe area ...
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Posts: 22984
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:47 am
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:48 am

Update, jimbear?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by jimbear » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:31 am

Life intervened with the engine "stalled" on the table. I have it stripped down to the long block with the oil cooler still attached. I have the intake ports plugged and the distributor drive hole plugged with rubber stoppers. This weekend I am going to douse the engine with cleaner and hose it down real well, let it dry, drain the oil, and then pull the heads. Rocker assemblies are out and bagged. Then, inspect the heads and the piston tops--pics to come. I'll take the heads to one of several local experts to see if they will give the heads a once-over-look-see. Then, new oversized time-cert for #4. Then address any issues if discovered with the heads. Then (incomplete list--feel free to add to it.):
~Address oil leaks (pressure sender--works fine/leaks, oil cooler , dipstick tube, oil filler pipe gasket, oil filter mounting flange gasket, +?).
~Pull/clean/inspect/reinstall the fuel pump. Lots of oil leaking from the base/flange area. I believe new flange gaskets are available.
~Then, replace the sealing ring and small crankshaft oil seal.
~Then, motor mounts?
~Then?

Any insight, tips, suggestions would be appreciated.

Should I go crazy with replacing gaskets as listed above?

Image
Image

More pics here on The Samba

Does anything jump out in the pics?
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

User avatar
sgkent
Addicted!
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:11 pm
Location: Citrus Heights CA (near Sacramento)
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by sgkent » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:22 am

take the heads to Len to look at them. He is in or near Athens. Hoffman Automotive Machine. He used to race, maybe still does a 914-4 in FP. Most knowledgeable T4 head person there is. He may be able to look over the case, rods, crankshaft, pistons and cylinders too. He did the camper special heads for JR for years. He also sells new heads. Ignore the like snow flakes in the photo. I left the plastic on them too long in the sun the day they came, and the preservative wax grew crystals I had not removed when the photos were taken.

Image

Image

Image
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

User avatar
jimbear
Getting Hooked!
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 pm
Location: Athens, GA
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by jimbear » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:22 pm

I finally got the head of on the 3/4 side, the reason again being the stripped Time-sert in the #4 plug hole. This is what I am seeing. You should know that I pulled a stupid move and hosed down the engine after the manifold came off. I had rubber plugs in the holes, but some water and engine degreaser got into the hole. That was about two weeks ago. Mad

I have never been this far into the engine. I was planning on taking the heads to our local club engine fella for a look see or possibly Len Hoffman for a general inspection and to see if one of them might be able to do the Time-sert for me.

Any insight and thoughts would be appreciated.

The engine was running GREAT prior the pull for the plug hole.

Image

Image
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

User avatar
Amskeptic
IAC "Help Desk"
IAC "Help Desk"
Posts: 22984
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:47 am
Status: Offline

Re: Athens, GA

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:10 pm

jimbear wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:22 pm
I finally got the head of on the 3/4 side, the reason again being the stripped Time-sert in the #4 plug hole.
Image

Check carefully the intake valves there. Do they stick out from the seats or are they sort of . . . recessed?

You should be able to do a timesert repair, just pull valves and clean and check guide clearances and seat contact widths. Clean clean clean, lubricate stems on reassembly, clean every head stud thread so you get proper head torques and git drivin boy.
Colin
(p.s. YES your engine is passing a lot of oil into the combustion chambers, we can see it, but if you want to get driving for cheap, the 1700 Type 4 can give you thousands of miles in that condition)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

Post Reply

Return to “2017 Itinerary”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests