Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

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Randy in Maine
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by Randy in Maine » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:56 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Any idea on just what the flaky crud was? Was it magnetic?
79 VW Bus

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JLT
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by JLT » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:02 pm

SlowLane wrote: Okay, I'm just going to say this once: there are these things called tow-trucks.
Well, I was in the same boat as Colin last January, when my generator gave out on the way to Buses By the Bridge. Somehow I managed to get there without a tow truck, and survive an oil dump on the way home, without having to call the truck. It was a point of honor for me to do whatever it took to make it back on my own steam.

I had a nice lunch today with Colin before he left town. He seemed to be in a much rosier frame of mind than he was yesterday, no doubt due to good Greek food and pleasant company. We've got to make a point of doing it more often than every four or five years.
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
'71 Frankenwestie "Thunder Bus"

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whc03grady
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by whc03grady » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:51 pm

Bleyseng wrote: Just in case Colin wants to go all out he can buy a gas tank for his westy.
http://www.kieftenklok.nl/shop/index.ph ... nal-detail
$900 for a gas tank that fits all fuel injected buses, including 72s, 73s, and 74s? Wow.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com

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Amskeptic
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:26 am

whc03grady wrote:
Bleyseng wrote: Just in case Colin wants to go all out he can buy a gas tank for his westy.
http://www.kieftenklok.nl/shop/index.ph ... nal-detail
$900 for a gas tank that fits all fuel injected buses, including 72s, 73s, and 74s? Wow.
Nooooooope. I'll put the link in the glovebox when I sell it . . . :geek:

SGKent, the sender enjoyed its little refresh and is reading smoothly. I remember our dialogue.
"You want a new sender, I have one."
"No!"
"You want some contact cleaner?"
"No!"
"You want a little brush?"
"No!"
"You want a new sender seal, I ordered one from Bus Depot."
"N-uh-yes."

Happy little idiot here drove down CA-99 yesterday with a growing bliss, yelling out at fellow traffic jam endurers.
"It's still running!"
"I have been sitting right here in the driver's seat for over 20 minutes!"
"Hey! Hey! Yeah you! Gas gauge is all the way down to half and I haven't even cleaned the filter!"
"No mosquito sounds here! You know, whine?"
Punched it to 70 mph when the traffic opened up and passed a row of trucks.
I had forgotten what trust was . . .
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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sgkent
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by sgkent » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:52 am

Nooooooope. I'll put the link in the glovebox when I sell it . . . :geek:

SGKent, the sender enjoyed its little refresh and is reading smoothly. I remember our dialogue.
"You want a new sender, I have one."
"No!"
"You want some contact cleaner?"
"No!"
"You want a little brush?"
"No!"
"You want a new sender seal, I ordered one from Bus Depot."
"N-uh-yes."

Happy little idiot here drove down CA-99 yesterday with a growing bliss, yelling out at fellow traffic jam endurers.
"It's still running!"
"I have been sitting right here in the driver's seat for over 20 minutes!"
"Hey! Hey! Yeah you! Gas gauge is all the way down to half and I haven't even cleaned the filter!"
"No mosquito sounds here! You know, whine?"
Punched it to 70 mph when the traffic opened up and passed a row of trucks.
I had forgotten what trust was . . .
I needed to hear that.
:sunny:
Did the sender "enjoyed" the refresh as past tense or is enjoying? ( I am guessing present tense "and is reading smoothly")
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

Jivermo
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by Jivermo » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:46 am

Excellent!

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SlowLane
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by SlowLane » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:27 pm

So did you make use of that 11.5 mm Cohline low-permeation hose I foisted off onto you for the filter-pump connection, or are you still running with that poor, criminally-abused chunk of OG hose?
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom."
- Terry Pratchett

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Amskeptic
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:55 pm

SlowLane wrote:So did you make use of that 11.5 mm Cohline low-permeation hose I foisted off onto you for the filter-pump connection, or are you still running with that poor, criminally-abused chunk of OG hose?
Oh we are sticking with the criminally abused. I'll find yours somewhere in there.
Today was 104*. Engine hit 447* on a hill as I tested the factory settings (indexed and recorded). 19 mpg @ 60 mph. The only way I could test was to unpack all the junk in the back and bury your very nice gift under a real mess, but! for the first time, I have been able to run the engine with the access cracked open a bit.

Now, at Pig Rich, 10.3 on a 55 mph hill, the engine still hit 437* and 15.7 mpg. We have a problem. This engine is bottling up heat in ways that the BobD never did. The only thing of note, as I shared stats and impressions with SGKent (when I wasn't negating his every offer), is that this engine has a full 10 to 15 lbs greater compression in every cylinder, 145-150 vs 120-130 for the BobD.

Will do some experiments the day after tomorrow's appointment with Loufilia/Loufalia. If successful, Death Valley is next. Unfortunately, today was actually the hottest expected temps over the next week.

How about you, wcfvw69? Got any scorchers left there in Phoenix?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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SlowLane
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by SlowLane » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:58 pm

Maybe try a tank of higher octane? Just to see if it makes a difference?
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom."
- Terry Pratchett

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ScottLasVegas
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by ScottLasVegas » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:04 pm

Not sure what route you are taking, but try to avoid I-15, those El Cajon fires have evacuated about 80,000, and they shut down the highway.

We have been a consistent 110 the past week here in Vegas, I would assume Phoenix has been the same, but I know they were dealing with some weather recently.

Scott
79 Riviera CA FI

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sgkent
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by sgkent » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:55 pm

re head temps - are you running the same tire size as the BobD?
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

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wcfvw69
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by wcfvw69 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:09 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
SlowLane wrote:So did you make use of that 11.5 mm Cohline low-permeation hose I foisted off onto you for the filter-pump connection, or are you still running with that poor, criminally-abused chunk of OG hose?
Oh we are sticking with the criminally abused. I'll find yours somewhere in there.
Today was 104*. Engine hit 447* on a hill as I tested the factory settings (indexed and recorded). 19 mpg @ 60 mph. The only way I could test was to unpack all the junk in the back and bury your very nice gift under a real mess, but! for the first time, I have been able to run the engine with the access cracked open a bit.

Now, at Pig Rich, 10.3 on a 55 mph hill, the engine still hit 437* and 15.7 mpg. We have a problem. This engine is bottling up heat in ways that the BobD never did. The only thing of note, as I shared stats and impressions with SGKent (when I wasn't negating his every offer), is that this engine has a full 10 to 15 lbs greater compression in every cylinder, 145-150 vs 120-130 for the BobD.

Will do some experiments the day after tomorrow's appointment with Loufilia/Loufalia. If successful, Death Valley is next. Unfortunately, today was actually the hottest expected temps over the next week.

How about you, wcfvw69? Got any scorchers left there in Phoenix?
Colin
I've been following along with your high head temps posts Colin. It made me wonder what that buses head temps would of been when that bus was brand new, doing the same route at the same ambient temperatures? We all know that these VW's didn't have head or oil temperature gauges on them when they were new. Is there any documentation from the 70's on what the head temperatures were expected to be on a 100 plus degree day, in a brand new type 4 bus, cruising at freeway speed? What would really change from when it was new to now having 60k miles on it since it appeared to have all the factory settings on the fuel injection?

How accurate do you think that head temperature gauge and sender really is? I've often wondered why folks don't take some of the air cooled engine gauges and senders off of wrecked aircraft. They'd have to be pretty accurate I'd think though the gauge might not read high enough?

Phoenix weather is still hot but is expected to be in the 100-102 range for the next week or two. I can assure you that I'm ready for a cool down or for the monsoon humidity to go away.

The offer still stands Colin. If you're passing through, Eva and I would love to cook that meal we all enjoyed last year. Of course, the trade off would be to get to drive your bus. :)
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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dingo
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by dingo » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:21 pm

comparing Naranja Mecanica to BobD..the question pops up: How does the a)profile and b) weight of Westy vs Tranzporter affect the mpg...and ability to dissipate heat ?
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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Bleyseng
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by Bleyseng » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:17 am

dingo wrote:comparing Naranja Mecanica to BobD..the question pops up: How does the a)profile and b) weight of Westy vs Tranzporter affect the mpg...and ability to dissipate heat ?
I think the pop top and the extra weight affect the mpg and the cht a lot esp. if you are trying to go 70mph. A Kombi is more streamlined than a Westy. In the 80's I saw lots of Westy's by the side of the road probably overheating but back then I was driving a Ford F 250 w/a camper on it getting 5mpg.

Last summer coming back from Idaho I saw temps in the 104-110F and my CHT's hit 425F and the oil 250F......
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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asiab3
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by asiab3 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:16 am

sgkent wrote:re head temps - are you running the same tire size as the BobD?
Spectacularly similar, actually. (They're THE tires and rims, taken off the BobD before the lap started. :blackeye: )

Did you feed him the Good BBQ??
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
100k miles with me.
279k miles on Earth.

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sgkent
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Some Forest

Post by sgkent » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:30 am

No Robbie - he wouldn't sit still long enough. I had trouble keeping him still long enough to eat at all. Dealing with the fuel issue for as long as he had really pushed him into a corner he wanted to get out of. Took him all day to travel down from Colfax which is only about 5 - 10 miles further up I-80 than that BBQ place from the house.

I too have trouble staying below 410F - 430F when the temps are 100F out. However as I pointed out to others, Richard Atwell did a lengthy article on VDO gauges (Colin has Dakota Digital). According to Richard, at 400F a VDO gauge is about 60F high, however it is also 30F low due to the placement of the thermocouple in the hot engine bay. That would mean a 430F temp with a VDO on a 100F day would actually be 400F - which is still hot enough to cause changes in the oil that cools it also.

I saw friends who had late Bays in the 1970's have constant problems compared to my 1971 dual port. They probably would have seen more except that the National speed limit was 55 mph so traffic generally was around 65 mph or lower and drivers in general were less aggressive. My driving habits are very close to what they were in 1975. Then I was one of the faster cars on the highway, today n the Acura or Sable I am in everyone's way at speeds equal or greater than in 1975.

There are also changes in fuel. I know that in the Sable wagon we see a 15% - 20% increase in mileage once we get away from the oxygenated gasoline here in the Central Valley. I don't know what this would do for head temps. Colin did indicate he was getting 19 mph at 60 mph which is what we get with our bay so I'd think he is right in there on the engine efficiency.

Randy -I asked the same question when Colin was here. He said the particles were not magnetic. To me that looked like carbon when wet, and had a dirty red Georgia clay look when dry - and turned to powder when rubbed between the finger and thumb.

Last thought - Colin said something when he was here that reflects on many of us in the VW Bay community - while many splits have upgraded their motors to later ones, our motors are in many ways unchanged since the 70's - yet we as individuals and groups know more about these buses than the dealers did in the 1970's. I believe we are getting the most from these 2L engines that cooling allows, and also doing the best to cool them that can be done without dumping huge efficiency like Gene Berg did by lowering compression into the 6's. The problem is an engineering one that would require additional head fins and air to lower temps. FWIW my Acura has compression that is 11.5 : 1 which is as high as we used in the SCCA race car. One cannot compare the old air cooled engines to the computer controlled water cooled ones of today.
Thank You -

Merlin The Wrench

Machine Work/Shop Recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

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