Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

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Amskeptic
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Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:58 am

I had posted a thread titled "Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings Seattle". Well, we never got to the "Seattle" part. So I renamed that thread "Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From Montana", and this is now the "Seattle" thread, but we are heading down to Portland, so what the heck, Pacific North West.

Anyways, the Seattle call was our good forum member, Ronin10, the author of a thread stretching over seven, maybe eight, pages regarding the running issues of his personally rebuilt 2.0 engine that had various issues with slightly balky running.

viewtopic.php?t=12345#p211425

I was most-interested to get to this bus and see for myself what the hoopla was about. On the way to the hoopla, gorgeous scenery through Washington State, a very diverse geographical smorgasbord of desert flatlands and mountains and for the coastal denizens, dripping rain forests and Pacific mists, except for right now, of course, we are enjoying My Kind Of Heat and sunshine:

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Here's the hoopla, including new rear brake backing plates in the midst of it all:

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We took a test drive up I-90 to watch the head temps sail into the 430s. Now, in the Eight Page Epistle linked above, there was much mention of hesitation and bucking. Ronin10 had to gone to the great length of obtaining another AFM and we decided that was to be the "control" AFM, while his old one could be the experimental "mule" AFM. That mule lived up to its name. Bucking and hesitating even with nice tracks. Control AFM then became "experimental" AFM and we ripped into the control with copious notes and terrible driving habits like driving uphill at full throttle with my left foot on the brake pedal. After much consultation and vague suppositions of "cause and effect", we seemed to arrive at some verification of prior counter-intuitive conclusions long ago reached with the BobD, such as:
"a richer mixture yields better fuel economy and lower head temps". I await with bated breath the longer-term results. We also enjoyed conversations about the state of the world, yes, but more importantly, the state of airline safety. At the end of the day, I tore out of there at dusk to go find an urban campsite. Found it:

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A river, a willow, a riverbank, birds, moon & stars (this was at night that I found it, you recall), and I awoke refreshed and defintely under the flight path to some airport (SeaTac?), cuz that was a humongous 747 that vooshed overhead with all flight control surfaces fully extended.

Day Two at Ronin10's was devoted to bringing his son into the Wonderful World Of VW Maintenance. As I hopefully dove into the Concepts Class at the kitchen counter, I saw what looked like distraction and perhaps inattentiveness. Not one to sing and dance to amuse the younger generation, I plowed on ahead with a slightly sickly awareness that I must be getting old and irrelevant to those youngsters, by golly. Hah.
The kid took it all in:

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We had to replace all of the valve adjusting screws that had been killed by some prior overtightening of the locknuts, and we did points, timing, and carburetion as we ripped into the politics of the day. Kid, I am glad to see that you will be a part of the solution.
We took a test drive and he of seventeen years showed an easy command of driving and a stubbornass refusal to get his foot off the clutch pedal at stops. That's OK. We can do main bearings at a later date:

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Took off at dusk again, for points south. The sunset was a little too far gone, so this picture was a tad under-exposed:

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Back in 2012, I fixed the passenger door latch with a hideously tortured fresh air ventilation link retainer spring:

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Then I found a real door latch spring hiding in the driver's door and removed the H.T.F.A.L.R. spring with the correct one. Well, the correct one got another case of wanderlust and managed to escape out of a drain hole, rendering my passenger door recalcitrant. It was a lovely 95* sunny day yesterday in the ferns and woods of Washington state around Centralia:

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Right here, I stripped the door down and removed the latch:

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. . . . and I found the old H.T.F.A.L.R. spring in my bag of "sliding door rollers and hvac springs"!

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It was like a homecoming. Spring knew exactly where to go. About thirty test cycles, and I trusted the trusty old Hideously Tortured Fresh Air Link Retainer spring to do its job:

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So far, so good.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by hambone » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:00 pm

Welcome to the crispy NW.
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it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by wcfvw69 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:29 pm

Oh boy,

I see that you visited Ronin and his argumentative bus engine. Was their any dialogue about potentially changing the cam to something his FI would play well with?

I was in Seattle last July, hoping, begging and pleading with the weather gods for rainy, cool days while there with my GF. I simply KNEW I deserved a reprieve from the ghastly 110* heat of the Phoenix valley. No, it was not to be. We had to experience high 90's and sunshine the entire trip..

I'm still bitter...
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by asiab3 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:50 am

I don't think Ronin's engine was the same one with the incompatible FI cam, was it? His was a bucking/unstable idle issue. Regardless, I hope he gets everything sorted out! Driving the BobD was an unforgettable experience for me; the smoothness of the working factory FI system is a thing of beauty.

There's a magical age number somewhere, where many young people I ride with habitually rest their foot on the clutch at stop signs. Some in gear, some in neutral. Middle-aged folk respond well to a gentle reminder, and then the habit is gone; the younger population is determined and focused to ignore my repeated slaps of their left knee. I imagine if you did that, Colin, it would be bad for business. But these folks and I are usually just going out for burgers. :drunken:

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by wcfvw69 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:27 am

asiab3 wrote:I don't think Ronin's engine was the same one with the incompatible FI cam, was it? His was a bucking/unstable idle issue. Regardless, I hope he gets everything sorted out! Driving the BobD was an unforgettable experience for me; the smoothness of the working factory FI system is a thing of beauty.

There's a magical age number somewhere, where many young people I ride with habitually rest their foot on the clutch at stop signs. Some in gear, some in neutral. Middle-aged folk respond well to a gentle reminder, and then the habit is gone; the younger population is determined and focused to ignore my repeated slaps of their left knee. I imagine if you did that, Colin, it would be bad for business. But these folks and I are usually just going out for burgers. :drunken:

Robbie
Wait.. what? You're not suppose to ride with your foot on the clutch? :compress: I have to fall on the sword and KNOW this isn't correct yet I still find myself being LAZY and resting my foot on at. I'm a middle age folk who's driven VW's for 35 years yet.. I need to continue to remind myself of this woeful habit..

As far as Ronin's engine, I kind of recall him having an after market cam in it that someone suggested may not play well with his FI system. I hope Colin and him were able to get it better dialed in for drivability sake.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Bleyseng » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:44 am

I think it's a Webcam 73....which should work.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:09 am

Bleyseng wrote:I think it's a Webcam 73....which should work.

A) The clutch pedal is only to be used briefly for starting off and shifts. You step on a pedal that applies full force of the pressure plate against the flywheel (800-1,000 lbs) and that is what wears out your main bearing / end play / pounded-out crankcase . . . need I go on?

B) It is a performance cam enough to barely give us 5 cold 7 warm 10 operating temp inches vacuum at idle.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by asiab3 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:21 am

Amskeptic wrote: B) It is a performance cam enough to barely give us 5 cold 7 warm 10 operating temp inches vacuum at idle.
To a technical forum we go?

What causes this? Decreasing valve clearance as the engine warms, thus better intake and exhaust flow?

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:44 am

A "performance"hydro cam? god that's a oxymoron.....
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Ronin10 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:19 pm

Woefully busy week at work so I hastily posted an updated thread adjacent to this one, glazing right over it in fact, and am just now getting caught up.

Colin traveled into the Seattle area for a 2-day visit. The plan going-in was to spend the first day working on my bus and the second day working on my son's bug. We kept to that, but as is the norm for me, my list was bigger than what we could realistically accomplish.

Top of the list day 1 was to revisit my AFM tuning. I had one that was running decently on my bus so we that aside as a control variable and installed a spare to tune. Going through this tuning process with Colin really helped straighten out a lot of the misunderstandings I had about AFM tuning. I'm not 100% positive I could back myself out a horrible tuning situation, but I'm much closer than I was before his visit.

Once we had a base tune in place on the spare AFM, we took Greta for a test drive, made some adjustments and drove some more. On the return trip we rediscovered the familiar buck. Since the AFM was the only thing that changed between the nonbucking and bucking states, we swapped in the control AFM and began tuning that. One of my other concerns was CHTs so the tuning took on the form of optimizing the tradeoff of driveability and CHTs with a little help from timing adjustments. By the end of the day, we had arrived on something that was decent, but we really needed a good long run to see what the ceiling of CHTs were.

The end result of all the tuning was 16.2 mpg on freeway driving(a bit low) with a ceiling CHT of 429 degrees, just under our comfort threshold. Full centrifugal advance is at 28 degrees with idle timing at 2 degrees ATDC. Driveability is a bit sluggish so I might advance the timing a bit and compare against CHTs over a wider range of driving, still with an eye to the ceiling CHT.

Somewhere along the way, we put in new backing plates for my rear brakes. The right side went in fine, the left had some grinding. We thought it went away, but subsequent driving after Colin left made it clear it hadn't gone away. You don't notice it in straight-line driving, but in right turns it scrapes like mad. Maybe we didn't catch it because we doing all our driving at freeway speed and primarily in straight lines. I've played with it a bit, but it doesn't seem fixable. I've emailed CIP1 to get an exchange, the plate is just warped enough to grind no matter what I do.

My son's day involved teaching him the basics of a tune up and maintenance as well as raising the front suspension. I continued to work on Greta's brakes, an electrical anomoly, and some more tuning, so I didn't see much of the day beyond the occasional bit of poking my nose in and assisting when required. Still, Colin commented to me on how impressed he was with my son picking stuff up. Proud papa moment.

Just a correction to the above, it's a Webcam 107i camshaft. Slightly more duration and lift than stock, but enough difference to tank idle on cold running. Now with a good AFM it idles good once moderately warm, but takes funky tuning, timing, and rich running to be happy. The low down: full mechanical advance is at 28 deg BTDC, idle is 2 deg ATDC, cruising AFR is 11.0-11.5 across just about all conditions (up and down hills, throttle release, etc.), CHTs cap out at 429 on the long hill climb heading east on I90, and mileage is about 16.2 mpg.

Most of my driving is around town during the weekend and this weekend was dedicated to swapping out my fuse box. Next weekend, I should get some freeway time to revisit those CHTs.

I think that's it. Happy 4th everyone!
Oscar: 1976 Sage Green Bus, Stock Motor, Solid Lifters, Manual Transaxle

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Ronin10 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:22 pm

...and for the record, Ethan had always made me nuts with his ability to give every indication that he's ignoring you yet be able to regurgitate your every word.
Oscar: 1976 Sage Green Bus, Stock Motor, Solid Lifters, Manual Transaxle

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Ronin10 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:28 pm

One of the issues Colin helped me diagnose was a faulty brake light/turn signal interaction. We found the issue in a burned out fuse box terminal. I just finished replacing the fuse box tonight, but while that brought my tail lamps back to life it wasn't a cure all. So now I have a blinking brake warning light in right hand turns (that's new) as well as the old issues: the left brake light does not working while the headlights are on, braking in a right hand turn slows then stops the turn signal indicator (and presumably the signals themselves) from flashing, and the blower motor does not operate when switched on. Good times.

I did end up advancing the timing to 1 degree ATDC at idle. It drives substantially better there. Will get on the road this weekend and see what my CHTs are.
Oscar: 1976 Sage Green Bus, Stock Motor, Solid Lifters, Manual Transaxle

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Re: Itinerant Air-Cooled Greetings From PNW

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:31 am

Ronin10 wrote:One of the issues Colin helped me diagnose was a faulty brake light/turn signal interaction. We found the issue in a burned out fuse box terminal. I just finished replacing the fuse box tonight, but while that brought my tail lamps back to life it wasn't a cure all. So now I have a blinking brake warning light in right hand turns (that's new) as well as the old issues: the left brake light does not working while the headlights are on, braking in a right hand turn slows then stops the turn signal indicator (and presumably the signals themselves) from flashing, and the blower motor does not operate when switched on. Good times.

I did end up advancing the timing to 1 degree ATDC at idle. It drives substantially better there. Will get on the road this weekend and see what my CHTs are.
Ask Lisa of Farmington MN. She is a pro. She would have you trace the turn signal circuit. If you did a wire-by-wire replacement of all the wires from the old fuse box to the new fuse box, you brought the error along.

First, make sure that the wires are all proper at the rear of the car. That means "damn sure". If there has been monkey business back there, you have to try to restore each factory wire color to the correct destination, and then, if there have been any incursions into the wire harness, you need to make sure that the wire colors are proper all the way to the fuse box. Then, all wires must be correctly routed to their respective fuses and operators. A brake light that flashes with the turn indicators means that the flasher relay is somehow supplying a signal to that wire.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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