IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

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jimbear
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IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by jimbear » Mon May 04, 2015 9:37 am

colin visit2.jpg
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I was lucky to score a 1/2 day with Colin this past Saturday. The object was to get the bug running properly so I can sell it. Last week, in an effort to diagnose the running issues it has been having I busted the fuel pump stand leaving the lower 1/2 in the case. During the extraction process I lost a sizable chunk into the case. We were looking at doing a diesel dump into the case in an effort to get the piece out. In the process of draining the oil we realized that we had some serious contamination issues in the case/sump. Back-story: I have not been driving the vehicle in the two years since I got it, short of about 50 miles. I had not changed the oil since purchase and was waiting until it was road worthy. Mistake.

Colin will post pics of what we found...god awful sludgieness!! No metal though and that was a plus. Unfortunately, we spent an inordinate amount of time giving the case a gasoline douche from the sump hole, a flush from the fuel pump hole, and all the while Colin's petite fingers scooping out the goo. Poor guy got a good dose of gas to the armpit and at one point the Harbor Freight siphon hand pump we were using to "squirt" gas into the various orifices gave me a good gasoline eye-wash--leaky piece of s#!%!

To sum up the original issue that was necessitating a visit: the car would start and run well for 10-15 minutes, but once to temp it would want to stall when the clutch was depressed and not go in general.

So, finally we replaced the fuel pump and the prob was still there. Checked the points and the prob was still there. Replaced the condenser and the prob was still there. Next on the list is to test the fuel pressure (although Colin believes the issue to be electrical), throw in new plugs and new wires. We will see, but we are hopeful.

Colin did dip into my '74 bus : he fixed the linkage and in the process discovered a stuck choke on the left carb, thus leading to a discovery of a stripped screw holding on the choke assembly and a choke rod(?) something, something issue. Colin, could you explain that last part?

All in all, a very good visit (#3 for me) and once again a true pleasure to chill with Amskeptic.
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by Amskeptic » Mon May 04, 2015 12:03 pm

All in all, a very interesting Never Seen Before Amazing Strainer Plate, and once again a true pleasure to chill with jimbear, with his He Better Not Sell That Georgia Peach Of A 1967 Beetle.

Sure, I thought, heck, why not dump a quart of diesel fuel down the oil filler and rinse that plastic fuel pump spacer/guide sleeve to the rim of the strainer plate hole?
It's not like there would be anything else in the sump that would have a "presence" at the strainer hole.

As we were draining the oil, jimbear asked why was the oil draining so slowly, hopefully, "is it the broken plastic piece?" I declared that the engine was just low on oil by about two and half quarts. Jimbear assured me that he kept the oil level up fine, thankyouverymuch.
Only when we loosened the strainer plate itself from the case did the oil . . . gush? no . . . pour? no . . . . gluck out, with chunks, even. Photos, or we are just exaggerating:

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No, really:

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This is a deadly build-up as far as starving the lubrication system at higher rpms. Because there is no oil pressure warning light if you have 7psi or above, there is no warning if you have low oil pressure at higher rpm where the rings would be the first to suffer from low oil pressure that only rears its head under high demand, but is just fine at hot idle.

It is also a deadly build-up as far as potential contamination is concerned. We carefully cleaned the crusty chunks in gasoline to see if they would fully dissolve, and they did, and that was good. And we decided that diesel did not have the requisite solvent action that we needed to stir up the goop and release the plastic chunk of fuel pump spacer/guide, so we used the aforementioned crankcase doucher that leaked all over the place. We were swimming in gasoline, jimbear got in the eye, and I got it in the rump via my soaked towel. Nonetheless, the bug ran very nicely, like a real 1967 light-on-its-feet Volkswagen would . . . until it didn't.
Bucking, hesitating, mis-firing, we did the diagnostics all the way up until I ran out of time. Oil-fouled plugs and a bit of blue smoke, this engine took it in the rings. We shall find out right here if it runs better with clean plugs and fresh non-shocking wires.

Next morning, I showed up at greenolivemedia's house in Atlanta to work on the factory-dual-carburetor retro-fitted Westy. Did we have to go into the dual carbs? Nooo, it was running FINE. We had to do other things to wrestle this car into shape, replace the drag link, rear brake adjustment and ebrake cable adjustment, snug up some loose CV joints (the ones that had gotten new boots at some prior point), install a new Dakota Digital CHT gauge, replace the now nationally famous loaner headrest escutcheon front shifter bushing that was actually the very same loaner headrest escutcheon that had spent a year as a front shifter bushing in Los Alamos, New Mexico. This poor headrest escutcheon, must be wondering by now why its life has been so much more difficult than its buddies hanging out in seats up in the nice dry cabin listening to music and getting cleaned.

So, meet the ten year-old mechanic who said, in the face of every "you think you'd like to/can do this?"
"Let's do it." / "I can do that".

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Not one to condescend, I had to let him:
* drop the belly pan
* run the Dakota Digital wiring
* help install the drag link (he demanded to be the cotter pin / castle nuts remover)
* adjust the emergency brake cables
*remove the tie-wire, grub screw, and front shift rod so he could put in the proper new bushing
* snug up the CV joints
* remove the #3 spark plug

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His dad and I sort of just lolled about the place:

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BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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jimbear
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by jimbear » Mon May 11, 2015 7:21 pm

OK, here's the situation....new plugs and wires in. Colin, you said try and go with W7AC (they burn a little hotter you said) plugs, but in my time frame I could only source what was local, W8AC. Also got new Bosch wires. Hooked everything up and what? It did not want to run well, at all. Determined (after stepping away to make dinner) that I had wires to 1 and 2 crossed. =D> I was rushed by fatherly duties.

Fixed and started.

Unfortunately I had messed with the carb and timing in the meantime of trying to discern why...you get the picture. So, went to reset the timing and my strobe light is really weak when attached to plug wire one. There's that. Not sure what it means. Any ideas? I had enough light to see my marks and set it where it sounded best, in the middle of the three notches on my pulley, on the paint mark to the right. Remember that I had only the three notches. You put a paint mark on the middle one and then another mark to the left of the notches. I do not remember what these represent. According to what I looked up the notch is supposed to be 7.5 BTDC and that is where it ran best at idle, the middle notch. Did that, did a semi-literate adjustment of the carb and took it for a test drive. I drove 4x the distance that we did on our last test drive, the test drive where it started to run crappy after turning around at the Family Dollar, and this test run it ran much better. Problem solved? There still seemed to be a high RPM miss, something seemed slightly off, but good power and the hesitationdon'twanttorun symptoms seem to have cleared. I need to: time it correctly, adjust the carb correctly, and then, good? My main concern is getting the timing right. A little guidance? I have an 009 with the three notches real close together on the pulley. :salute:
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by Amskeptic » Tue May 12, 2015 5:31 am

jimbear wrote:OK, Fixed and started.

A little guidance? I have an 009 with the three notches real close together on the pulley. :salute:
I am so slammed right now. I want to reply more fully, but can't. This isn't exactly the place for technical. PM me and I will respond in the next 48 hours.
How is exhaust? Clear? You have stroboscopic timing light? What is the exact model of carb?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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jimbear
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by jimbear » Tue May 12, 2015 8:10 am

I'll respond more fully later today. Take a deep breath. You are the man!
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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jimbear
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by jimbear » Wed May 13, 2015 5:12 am

PM Sent. Timing mark pic here.

Image
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 13, 2015 7:13 am

jimbear wrote:PM Sent. Timing mark pic here.

Image
That looks like the classic usual well-documented
"0" TDC with red dot/ 7.5* BTDC / 10* BTDC

With an 009, you set the static timing to 7.5* usually, and hope that it will get to 28* at 3,200 rpm.
But, if distributor is old and sloppy, you will likely be over-advanced at 3,200 rpm with just the static or idle timing adjustment. You need to search online and execute the measurement from "0" to 28* and make a new mark. I have a dial on my timing light that lets me read out the actual advance by turning the dial to keep the "0" in line with the notch on the case as the engine is revved. If you have a dial-able timing light, you can do that too.
Colin
(we want bright consistent flashes . . . if you see drop-outs in the flash, that suggests ignition issues)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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jimbear
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Location: Athens, GA
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WOOOOOO FREAKING HOOOOO!!!

Post by jimbear » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:25 am

FIXED!!! :cheers:

Ready for it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXpZWUGTxRc

It was the distributor. No shit! After all we lookedatcleanedreplacedinspectedputbacktogether during Colin's visit, me replacing the plugs and wires, and everything else I/we tried it was the distributor. #-o She is running great and I am finally able to experience driving the beetle as a true joy.
'74 Hardtop Westy
Pretty much stock engine setup

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Amskeptic
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Re: WOOOOOO FREAKING HOOOOO!!!

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:31 pm

jimbear wrote:FIXED!!! I am finally able to experience driving the beetle as a true joy.
Yay! Enjoy that bug and don't you dare sell it, either.

That thing is missing the fiber/steel thrust washers between the drive dog and the bottom of the distributor, AND your centrifugal weights may be bunged. Take it apart and look!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by asiab3 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:52 pm

That's the most exuberant wear I've ever seen in any Volkswagen part.*

*So it's not a real VW part. I can't recall any distributor having enough shims built in it to give that much play if the shims broke out. There was a lack of shims, maybe, but then at LEAST a few miles of self-machining going in inside there.

Ouch, but congrats!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by Hobug » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:26 pm

I dropped by Jimbear's house while Colin was there and took a few pictures while they worked. I am really late posting the pictures, but here they are.

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76 Westy
69 Squareback (auto)
63 Bug
73 Thing (Type 4 powered)

pdlrofdrms
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by pdlrofdrms » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:01 pm

So fun! thanks for posting.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC Visit To Athens GA (part B)

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:26 am

pdlrofdrms wrote:So fun! thanks for posting.
Better late than never . . . I feel better about some of my tardy posts.
ColinHotterNHeckDeathValley
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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