Colin visits airkooledchris (and freezes his arse off)

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airkooledchris
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Colin visits airkooledchris (and freezes his arse off)

Post by airkooledchris » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:53 am

[albumimg]2652[/albumimg]

We started at 9, got some fuel and sat down for a hey-how-ya-doin and an intro into how the day was going to progress....

Colin reminded me that its just as important to know WHY your doing what your doing as it is that your following directions blindly (ok, moreso) so we had to go over the ABC's first on valve adjustments, dwell, and timing.

Time to head out to the van and get started. Set the hydraulic lifters properly, where we found 2.5 turns on #2 and #3 exhaust valves, which is likely more about my own mistake in setting them last time around than their changing that much, but we'll know more when/if I replicate those findings (hopefully lack thereof).

Time to fire up the motor. Gasps can be heard from Colin as he ponders what in the H are those sounds? Lots of nonspecific sounds. We cover what some of them may or may not be and move on, for now.

Set dwell, schooled on filing points (you don't need to buy new ones every 3 months?) got our magic number and moved on to timing.
Got the timing set where we wanted it and continued to ponder the noises.
Piston slap? Main bearing? maaaaybe that alternator is making some of those sounds? move on to the next step and we'll come back to that...

The dreaded compression test is next. This is where the motor starts threatening us with terminal counfoundedness.
#1 66
#2 85
#3 110
#4 120

ooooooooo k? no.

[albumimg]2650[/albumimg]

some oil and another test

#1 90
#2 110
#3 150
#4 160

ok, maybe I got a bit too much oil in #4 for that one. doh.

time for a test drive. see if we can tell what those noises are and how they effect the overall drive ability. left the engine lid cracked a hair to get a better sound in the cabin..

after a bit of cursing my throttle cable tightness and funky 1/2 gate on the shifter (feels normal to me!) we hit the road. my motor proclaimed it's displeasure for being driven gently, where it sounded like absolute ass and was all jerky/etc, but once we started pushing it she came back to life and said 'more please' - it was confirmed this motor is a bit of a masochist.


more driving tests. yes, it really does take my van 20+ seconds to go from 50-60. owch.
turn around and try it the other direction, same result even with different driver.
yikes, that is really slow, though I guess to be expected with the low compression.

now is a good time to mention this is an AVP longblock that ive had since July of 2006 and have only managed to put 16k miles on it thus far. I haven't beaten it, no huge long trips, no hot climate, I run every effin gauge I can and have done everything that I could think of since day one to make it happier. (more on it's individual history some other time, but needless to say im pissed that its probably not going to live very long at all.)

time to check for vacuum leaks. yes, there are some. right where the intake runners go into the head, so new gaskets are on the list to get those tightened up.

another strange anomnoly, pulling the #3 plug from the dist cap seems to make zero difference in the overall sound and power of the engine.
one of the best cylinders compression-wise is seemingly working the least to the overall power of the motor.
another strange anomoly is that the #1, the lowest, has the absolute biggest effect on the motor when pulled.
no wonder it's dying, its apparently doing the lions share of the work, though we have no idea why/how.

the rest of the day is a blur really. we covered the AFM, cursed my too-tight silver wiper screw (now stripped and still in its same position.)

While I had previously setup my LM-1 to get a decent mixture as measure from the tailpipe, the vacuum leaks likely were causing it to run lean as all 4 plugs were powdered sugar in appearance.

I have since swapped out those intake runners with another set I had sitting around, after sanding them smooth and flat and installing new gaskets.
at idle now it holds 15# vacuum very steadily, where previously it was erratic as hell.
between our enrichment and the fixing (hopefully) of the vacuum leaks, it's likely rich as a pig now, but ill wait for testing to see for sure.

the more time that passes the more it seems to have all been some sort of dream, which thankfully ive both learned and been inspired by.
im trying not to let my previous thought process get in the way of all of this new data, but it's a work in progress.
I wanted to get this posted before too much of the day was lumped together into one long memory....
[albumimg]2651[/albumimg]

more happened, updates to follow.....
1979 California Transporter

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Amskeptic
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Re: Colin visits airkooledchris (and freezes his arse off)

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:48 pm

airkooledchris wrote: I have since swapped out those intake runners with another set I had sitting around, after sanding them smooth and flat and installing new gaskets.
at idle now it holds 15# vacuum very steadily, where previously it was erratic as hell.
it's likely rich as a pig now, but ill wait for testing to see for sure.

updates to follow.....
Thank-you for the airkooledchris Commemorative Tach/Dwell Meter!!!!!
It was pressed into service today on Covelo's very nicely running '72 Westy with stock dual carbs.

So . . . how is the engine running with the intake gaskets and runners squared away? Have you asked the engine what it wants after it is fully woken up and warm? I am very interested to know how this engine does. Did it run quiet when cold with the alternator belt off?

I enjoyed our day and your good native intelligence.

Route 36 was stunningly beautiful and epic in the night with the moon and scuttling clouds and huge changes in elevation. But it was 88* and sunny the next day! Yay!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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dingo
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Post by dingo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:52 am

i dig that sketch of the Vanagon...got any of Bays ?
'71 Kombi, 1600 dp

';78 Tranzporter 2L

" Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches."

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zblair
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Post by zblair » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:46 pm

Dingo there were several when Colin was posting art of his for his calendar. Not sure where they are now on here or if they are still on here...
1974 T1 Super Beetle "Fweem"
2017 Honda HRV "Domina"


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Re: Colin visits airkooledchris (and freezes his arse off)

Post by airkooledchris » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:12 pm

Amskeptic wrote: Thank-you for the airkooledchris Commemorative Tach/Dwell Meter!!!!!
It was pressed into service today on Covelo's very nicely running '72 Westy with stock dual carbs.
very cool. I had hoped it would start making it's rounds and prove it was worth rescuing from the local yard.
So . . . how is the engine running with the intake gaskets and runners squared away?
I wasn't entirely clear on what I should look/listen for in terms of before/after results, but thankfully I actually took some video of my vacuum back in May as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwz3DMFJsWk

It was puttering between 13-15

With the intake runner gaskets replaced I am now seeing a much more steady 15+ as seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJcNu-_gii8
Have you asked the engine what it wants after it is fully woken up and warm? I am very interested to know how this engine does.
I haven't driven it anywhere other than up and down the street since fixing the vacuum leak.
My goal currently is to get that exhaust leak tightened back up where the extractor meets the muffler and put the LM-1 on it again to get that mixture figured out. unfortunately that crazy tight screw on the silver slider (WIPER!) is both where it was before and now stripped, so ideally im not too far off and can change what I need to with the cog. (riiight)

Im officially too embarrassed to do anymore 50-60 tests now that I know what it *should* be, and after seeing other reports, but it if starts feeling spritely on the next journey (headed to the beach tonight) - ill get one more reading to see what if anything has changed there.
Did it run quiet when cold with the alternator belt off?
with the ALT belt off the 'piston slap' did go away thankfully.
I removed that fan from the front of the ALT (you bay guys wont know what the H im talking about) and put it back in and it makes a LOT less noise, so it's not really the ALT by itself 100%, its partially that whole assembly. I have some dynamat scraps here and there and ill see if I can make it all go away this weekend, but since its not internal to the motor, I also dont care! woohoo.


what im still a little fuzzy on, and perhaps I need to just ignore this whole fact, but why is it that if Cyl #1 and #2 have the lowest compression and #3 and 4 the highest, why does pulling the spark from 1 or 2 nearly kill the engine and when you pull it from #3 the motor can barely tell the difference?
I took a little video of it just now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DevSUzNc2yA

I swapped out that #3 plug with that used Bosch plugwire I had as a spare in the garage just in case, but it acts just the same as before.

Glad it finally warmed up for you. You *just* missed out because our weather got really warm to. The next 10 days its nothing but sunshine and almost-too-hot for this viking to take 62* highs and 52* lows without variation. (so while I wore shorts during your stay, now I can finally ditch that stocking cap.)
1979 California Transporter

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Re: Colin visits airkooledchris (and freezes his arse off)

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:50 pm

airkooledchris wrote: My goal currently is to put the LM-1 on it again to get that mixture figured out. Glad it finally warmed up for you.
13.5 under full throttle. 14 ish at idle. Ask the engine more than rely on the LM-1. Your senses are as important as their numbers. All it takes is one exhaust leak upstream to throw off the LM-1. I prefer that we learn and execute based on our own intuition processing more than one variable.

I am on my way to Death Valley via Yosemite. It is going to be a lush 120* . . . :colors:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Post by airkooledchris » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:08 pm

I think my skin would explode in the sun/heat of death valley.
the one time I travelled through that area, I drove all night and slept all day. :drunken:


sooooo, the GOOD news is that the motor might be a little happier about life.

I re-did my 50-60MPH tests and I was able to get the same number 4 times in a row and in both directions of that same stretch of highway we did it before on...



my and Colins 50-60 MPH tests previously = 20+ seconds. 23 in 2 of them. eek.

and now
drum roll please...

13!!!

knocking 7 whole seconds off of our previous attempts id say is pretty damn good. between resetting the mixture some and getting rid of those vacuum leaks that seems to have woken up the beast inside.

there appears to be a lot less missing and hesitation at idle also, though ill be more excited if I can replicate that number again after a few days.
1979 California Transporter

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Post by airkooledchris » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:08 pm

on a side note, I spoke with the folks at AVP about my overall engine experience and they are willing to work with me. I am 2 years and 4k miles out of my warranty period, so the fact that they will even consider it is pretty cool.
in short, if it turns out the issues with the motor are obviously all my own fault (meaning it apppears to have been simply ran way too hot and there is no main bearing issue or any other assembly problem) - then im to cover the cost of the parts, but they won't charge me any labor.
if I can pull it myself and get it down to the longblock, they will have a frieght service come and pick it up from me directly (no cost.) - however if I have to pay someone to either help or just do the uninstall (and subsequent reinstall) - they will pay half of that charge if it was a mistake of their own doing and I have to foot the whole bill for that if it was by own doing.

they said also they would provide full photographic documentation to show exactly what went wrong, regardless of whom is at fault.
when asked what the worst case scenario might be, IE its all my own doing, I have to get new P&C along with the usual gasket set, it should still come in under $500.

the cool thing is that they don't mind if I wait until after the camping season, if I wanted to just push it along as is for a while and then address it later in the fall.

AVP puts these little tattle tale tabs on the motor to see if its been overheated and the only one I could find last night before it got dark on the bottom of the case under the 3/4 side seemed to still have most of it's 'goo' in the middle. hopefully the others wherever they are hiding will show the same.
1979 California Transporter

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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:33 pm

airkooledchris wrote:my 50-60 MPH test previously 20 seconds.

and now 13!!! 7 whole seconds off previous

lot less missing and hesitation at idle also.
Keep us posted. Does it feel peppier, i.e. acceptable for road trips? I'd be very interested in compression test in a hundred miles, you and Oregon72.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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