Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Carbs & F.I.

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hambone
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by hambone » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:05 pm

What about these?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1721223
(actually that's for a 40 HP engine, will it work with a 1600?)
or
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 27-025-DOE
Yeah not as good as original, but also affordable.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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Amskeptic
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:50 pm

hambone wrote:What about these?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1721223
(actually that's for a 40 HP engine, will it work with a 1600?)
or
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 27-025-DOE
Yeah not as good as original, but also affordable.
"Affordable" is an interesting word.

Those above linked pumps do not have the cut-off valve that prevents percolation into the carb throat. Over time, this richheat soak condition destroys your piston rings and cylinder walls giving you a 60,000 mile engine instead of a 120,000 mile engine.

I cannot afford not to spend $200.00 right now for the factory engineering at the top of its game, I can smell the first hints of oil in my exhaust. I had a steady diet of horribly rich starts in Death Valley in this car, I cannot afford to let it continue.

We all have to step away from this relentless bitching about affordability in this cheesy cheap world. Every time we bitch, our suppliers are given feedback that says we don't give a damn about quality. You and your customers CAN afford it. You the mechanic pass on the costs with a solid explanation. You the owner of Ma, a real Volkswagen, know damn well that top quality costs less over time. Look at the sad stories of crap parts failing all over the place, the flatbed tows, the botched vacations, the damaged reputation that these cars have been unfairly saddled with - THAT is expensive.
If your bus "Ma" had one good German Pierburg pump rebuilt by VintageWerks with the spare diaphragm to put in your glovebox, with the proper circlip-retained pivot pin made of real German steel, with the correct spring pressure (less wear on the pushrod too, hello), for best fuel line pressure, I guarantee you that you will be spending less on Ma over the long haul than any other option.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by asiab3 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:11 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
hambone wrote:What about these?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1721223
(actually that's for a 40 HP engine, will it work with a 1600?)
or
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 27-025-DOE
Yeah not as good as original, but also affordable.
Those above linked pumps do not have the cut-off valve that prevents percolation into the carb throat.
How can you tell? I want to know if I find something in an old pile 'o junk that should be hoarded.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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hambone
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by hambone » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:25 pm

I just can't afford it. There must be other options.
Here is a partial Mexican kit:
http://www.bughaus.com/fuel_pump_rebuil ... 198555.htm

bet it's not German
http://www.bus-ok.de/T1-und-T2-Benzinpu ... -111198555
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:07 am

asiab3 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: Those above linked pumps do not have the cut-off valve that prevents percolation into the carb throat.
How can you tell? I want to know if I find something in an old pile 'o junk that should be hoarded.
Those pumps with a single bolt at the top are sporting a screen up there.

The OEM anti-percolation pumps have a real diaphragm with a spring with four screws holding the top on.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Amskeptic
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:13 am

hambone wrote:I just can't afford it. There must be other options.
Here is a partial Mexican kit:
http://www.bughaus.com/fuel_pump_rebuil ... 198555.htm

bet it's not German
http://www.bus-ok.de/T1-und-T2-Benzinpu ... -111198555
Amazing. Last year, I could not find ANYTHING for the Pierburgs, and here you are just raining kits down.
The Bughaus kit is charging way more for far less, but quality, who knows?
Should I buy a kit and see how it works on my spare pump?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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zabo
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by zabo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:39 am

bughaus kit is not as pictured. I talked with them on phone.
Same kit WW and everyone else is selling.
60 beetle
78 bus

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Amskeptic
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:52 am

zabo wrote:bughaus kit is not as pictured. I talked with them on phone.
Same kit WW and everyone else is selling.
Thank you for the heads-up. I shall NOT buy one of those kits.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by hambone » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:59 pm

Well crap. Can't WE manufacture those diaphragms? And find the right spring? Hell I engineer my own pants everyday, just part of vintage aircraft.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:20 am

hambone wrote:Well crap. Can't WE manufacture those diaphragms? And find the right spring? Hell I engineer my own pants everyday, just part of vintage aircraft.
I tried and tried last winter. No butyl nitrile gasket material was thin enough or properly reinforced. The last sheet I bought was still too thick, and would not allow the diaphragm to move so close to the wall of the pump. I think it is something like 1/32". Then, I was wondering how I was going to cut the circle/screw holes with the proper give already established. I am sorry I gave up, but I am praying that this VintageWerks pump is the real deal. Find and keep real springs. Really, imagine the factory engineers applying leverage to their suppliers, "you want steady work, you must meet OUR specifications, do it right" . . . and our suppliers now, "What 'specifications'? What are these spoiled little hobbyists whining about now?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by hambone » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:41 pm

I bitch every time I get a failed part locally, bring the bad part in for a refund. I get apologies and "this is all our supplier can get". Crap or nuthin what do you choose?
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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wcfvw69
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by wcfvw69 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:27 pm

hambone wrote:I bitch every time I get a failed part locally, bring the bad part in for a refund. I get apologies and "this is all our supplier can get". Crap or nuthin what do you choose?
In my case, I have to compromise as I did with the fuel pumps I'm currently running. This is only going to get worse as more and more parts become NLA (no longer available). I've found that sites like this and The Samba are good to solicit feedback on what are the best parts available. It's a trend that appears to be catching on. We're all sick of buying crap parts so we are taking our time in doing research before spending our hard earned money.

On a positive note, we are seeing hobbists taking matters in their own hands. They are having parts made to the correct specs and quality and are then selling them to others. Some of the better VW parts vendors are also appearing to put more effort in sourcing quality made parts through out the world. They are also having some badly needed parts reproducted as well.

As many of the VW models are continuing to rise in value and collector car status, we can hope this trend brings more people into our hobby that are willing to pony up and buy the more expensive parts. I (like many) like to bitch, complain, whine, moan, snivel and cry when I have to crack my wallet open and buy the best quality part I can get. I've also learned (the hard way) that you dollars ahead in only having to do the work once and not continue to replace the cheap, POS part again and again.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

kreemoweet
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by kreemoweet » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:40 pm

Amskeptic wrote: Those pumps with a single bolt at the top are sporting a screen up there.
We should all be clear that a pump having but a single screw/bolt on top does not preclude them having a cutoff valve. For instance, according to the Haynes
70-74 Beetle manual, the pumps that came with late 72-74 1600 Beetles had a cutoff valve under their single-screw top, and were visually indistiguishable from
the earlier pumps which did not (and had a separate cutoff device), until you took the lid off. Also, some aftermarket pumps which can not be disassembled
clearly have cutoff valves inside, or are constructed so as to have the same practical effect. Blowing into the inlets with pressure less than pump output pressure
is a good practical test of a fuel pump. Pumps with missing or defective cutoff valves, such as you find in the WW kit, will have flow; the others will not.

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wcfvw69
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by wcfvw69 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:46 pm

kreemoweet wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: Those pumps with a single bolt at the top are sporting a screen up there.
We should all be clear that a pump having but a single screw/bolt on top does not preclude them having a cutoff valve. For instance, according to the Haynes
70-74 Beetle manual, the pumps that came with late 72-74 1600 Beetles had a cutoff valve under their single-screw top, and were visually indistiguishable from
the earlier pumps which did not (and had a separate cutoff device), until you took the lid off. Also, some aftermarket pumps which can not be disassembled
clearly have cutoff valves inside, or are constructed so as to have the same practical effect. Blowing into the inlets with pressure less than pump output pressure
is a good practical test of a fuel pump. Pumps with missing or defective cutoff valves, such as you find in the WW kit, will have flow; the others will not.
SO, do you know which pumps being sold currently have this cut-off valve? I guess the impression I was getting was only the original Pierburg pumps had that feature?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

kreemoweet
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Re: Parts: Known to be Acceptable

Post by kreemoweet » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:06 pm

wcfvw69 wrote: SO, do you know . . .
I know nothing about currently sold fuel pumps. I DO know how to blow into the inlet, and hook up a pressure gauge to the outlet.
If the Bentley manual is to be believed, none of the 68-71 bus engines had a fuel pump equipped with a cutoff valve; neither had they a separate
cutoff valve like some Type I's did.

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