1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
- fredg
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1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Hi!
I'm the FNG de-jour.
My 71 Kombi w/ upright 1600 DP came with a pict 34-3 and a 50 cent round air filter. I'd like to use an oil bath filter from a 66 T1 1300. Is this air filter going to be too restrictive?
Why a little oil bath?
I have one.
I find them endearing.
There is a 1'' inlet for pre-heat.
There is room to add a 2nd 1/2" inlet so I can run both the charcoal canister and the oil breather lines into it.
I have a mid 70's - rod actuated pre heat - T2 filter I could set up but it is big, ugly, and requires parts I do not possess.
I have a few extra 1/2 hose barbs, a cool old junction box, and am prone to overkill. On a stock 1600 is there any advantage to adding breather tubes to the valve covers?
Thank you!
Fred
I'm the FNG de-jour.
My 71 Kombi w/ upright 1600 DP came with a pict 34-3 and a 50 cent round air filter. I'd like to use an oil bath filter from a 66 T1 1300. Is this air filter going to be too restrictive?
Why a little oil bath?
I have one.
I find them endearing.
There is a 1'' inlet for pre-heat.
There is room to add a 2nd 1/2" inlet so I can run both the charcoal canister and the oil breather lines into it.
I have a mid 70's - rod actuated pre heat - T2 filter I could set up but it is big, ugly, and requires parts I do not possess.
I have a few extra 1/2 hose barbs, a cool old junction box, and am prone to overkill. On a stock 1600 is there any advantage to adding breather tubes to the valve covers?
Thank you!
Fred
- asiab3
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
I do not know, but it might be worthwhile to compare the flow characteristics, or at least passage sizes, on it versus the stock 1600 air cleaners.fredg wrote:My 71 Kombi w/ upright 1600 DP came with a pict 34-3 and a 50 cent round air filter. I'd like to use an oil bath filter from a 66 T1 1300. Is this air filter going to be too restrictive?
I have three spare correct 1600 oil baths. Where are you located? You can have one if you come pick it up.Why a little oil bath?
I have one.
Pictures? What year is it off of? There was a minute change almost every year from '68 to at least '74.I have a mid 70's - rod actuated pre heat - T2 filter I could set up but it is big, ugly, and requires parts I do not possess.
The stock breathing system is perfectly adequate, but once you change one part all bets are off. With a stock 1600 with stock breathing system, there is no issue. But bolt on one chrome something-or-other and all bets could be off. Some have said larger engines need the breathing room, but I do not know first hand. (For those reading and more interested, don't ever vent the sides of the valve covers; always vent up. Did you know the rocker box areas on a T1 engine can fill more than halfway up with oil during high RPM running? There's a quick "top end lubrication" system waiting to suck the oil out of your engine....)On a stock 1600 is there any advantage to adding breather tubes to the valve covers?
Enjoy the simplicity and reliability of a time-tested 1600 VW engine.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- SlowLane
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livermore, CA
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
I'm with Robbie. Source a year-correct oil-bath filter and snorkel for your Kombi. It will love you for it (or at least, you can convince yourself that an inanimate object you have an irrational attachment to is capable of reciprocating your feelings).
Update: just saw this on the SF-Bay Craigslist: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/pts/5033072185.html
As far as rocker-cover vents go, read this article by Len Hoffman about some experiments he and Jake Raby performed on performance-oriented Type IV engines. Their results are non-intuitive, but make sense once you read their explanations.
Update: just saw this on the SF-Bay Craigslist: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/pts/5033072185.html
As far as rocker-cover vents go, read this article by Len Hoffman about some experiments he and Jake Raby performed on performance-oriented Type IV engines. Their results are non-intuitive, but make sense once you read their explanations.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
A critical gift provided by the stock oil bath air cleaner is the bob-weight + flap in the air cleaner snorkel.
That IS the positive crankcase ventilation metering system. That bob-weight makes the engine have to suck through the oil breather hose a bit. That bob-weight is why a stock engine throws less oil out the slinger and remains drier than chrome crap air filters,
Colin
That IS the positive crankcase ventilation metering system. That bob-weight makes the engine have to suck through the oil breather hose a bit. That bob-weight is why a stock engine throws less oil out the slinger and remains drier than chrome crap air filters,
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- fredg
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
The T2 oil bath is the cable actuated type from another year than 71. Will the old T1 (round bellows) type thermostat and a motorcycle brake cable work?
Thank you for the links!
Thank you for the links!
- wcfvw69
- Old School!
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Are you trying to hook up your oil bath preheat flap on a 68-70 T2 bus? If so, you need a Bowden cable with a little spring on it. They aren't sold new but you can find them used occasionally. Yes, you can hook a bicycle brake cable and sheeth to make it work. Do you have the flaps in the shroud with the correct lever to hook the cable too?fredg wrote:The T2 oil bath is the cable actuated type from another year than 71. Will the old T1 (round bellows) type thermostat and a motorcycle brake cable work?
Thank you for the links!
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.
- fredg
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
I have not pulled the shroud to see if my flaps are there.
So, you are saying is the flapper on the 1970 oil bath air cleaner is operated via a cable hooked to the flaps which are activated by the round bellows like thermostat.
The 1966 T1 oil bath flapper is counter weighted. Could I just counterweight the flap on the 1970 T2 cleaner?
So, you are saying is the flapper on the 1970 oil bath air cleaner is operated via a cable hooked to the flaps which are activated by the round bellows like thermostat.
The 1966 T1 oil bath flapper is counter weighted. Could I just counterweight the flap on the 1970 T2 cleaner?
- wcfvw69
- Old School!
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
The bob-weight and flaps and the pre-heat lever in the oil bath are two different things. Read Colin's description of the bob-weight flap in this thread already. The preheat flap in the oil bath is actuated by the Bowden cable that connects to the flaps in the fan shroud. What it does is divert only the pre-heated air when the engine is cold to the carb. This helps the cold start drivability. When the thermostat that's bolted to the engine under cylinders one and two opens the flaps in the fan shroud as the engine warms, the Bowden cable will pull the pre-heat flap in the oil bath closed so it only draws in non-heated air.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
All well and good, but I think the earlier (split window) buses had a bob weight for their preheat too, so faster intake air speeds would run cool air and slower intake speeds would run preheated air.wcfvw69 wrote:The bob-weight and flaps and the pre-heat lever in the oil bath are two different things. Read Colin's description of the bob-weight flap in this thread already. The preheat flap in the oil bath is actuated by the Bowden cable that connects to the flaps in the fan shroud. What it does is divert only the pre-heated air when the engine is cold to the carb. This helps the cold start drivability. When the thermostat that's bolted to the engine under cylinders one and two opens the flaps in the fan shroud as the engine warms, the Bowden cable will pull the pre-heat flap in the oil bath closed so it only draws in non-heated air.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- fredg
- I'm New!
- Location: NH Coast
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Exactly. I'm assuming the flaps in the shroud are long gone. So, I am wondering if I can add a bob weight to the preheat flapper on my 1970 bus air cleaner.asiab3 wrote: All well and good, but I think the earlier (split window) buses had a bob weight for their preheat too, so faster intake air speeds would run cool air and slower intake speeds would run preheated air.
What would be the problem with just wiring it open? Some pre-heat is more than I'm getting now....
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Too much flap, flapper, flaps talk around here, we are cross-conversing.fredg wrote:Exactly. I'm assuming the flaps in the shroud are long gone. So, I am wondering if I can add a bob weight to the preheat flapper on my 1970 bus air cleaner.asiab3 wrote: All well and good, but I think the earlier (split window) buses had a bob weight for their preheat too, so faster intake air speeds would run cool air and slower intake speeds would run preheated air.
What would be the problem with just wiring it open? Some pre-heat is more than I'm getting now....
Bob-weight and its air-cleaner flap is totally separate than any discussion of preheater flap or cooling flaps.
Do NOT add a bob-weight to the preheater flap on the 1970 bus air cleaner. Leave it alone for now.
You need to verify that you have the preheater duct under the rear tin, you need to see if you have cooling flaps, and I doubt that you have a 1970 and before set of cooling flaps that has a little lever to run the preheater flap. Dual port engines have independent air cleaner-mounted thermostats dedicated to preheater valve only. Leave the 1970 air cleaner alone.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- fredg
- I'm New!
- Location: NH Coast
- Status: Offline
Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Didn't mean to cause a flap.
I apologize for my ignorance of and being flapped over part names and engineering specific to my 71. With so many changes over the years of a tweaky - cooling, heating, pre-heating, and vapor collection system no wonder the parts got tossed.
Are there any pictures or schematics of the 1971 systems available?
So I am now on the market for a correct air cleaner with attached thermostat and preheater duct for inside the tin for a Kombi built 7/71.
I will most likely need a set of flaps and mechanism for inside the shroud.
Thank you all,
Fred
I apologize for my ignorance of and being flapped over part names and engineering specific to my 71. With so many changes over the years of a tweaky - cooling, heating, pre-heating, and vapor collection system no wonder the parts got tossed.
Are there any pictures or schematics of the 1971 systems available?
So I am now on the market for a correct air cleaner with attached thermostat and preheater duct for inside the tin for a Kombi built 7/71.
I will most likely need a set of flaps and mechanism for inside the shroud.
Thank you all,
Fred
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
fredg wrote:Didn't mean to cause a flap.
I apologize for my ignorance of and being flapped over part names and engineering specific to my 71. With so many changes over the years of a tweaky - cooling, heating, pre-heating, and vapor collection system no wonder the parts got tossed.
Are there any pictures or schematics of the 1971 systems available?
So I am now on the market for a correct air cleaner with attached thermostat and preheater duct for inside the tin for a Kombi built 7/71.
I will most likely need a set of flaps and mechanism for inside the shroud.
Thank you all,
Fred
![Image](http://imganuncios.mitula.net/1968_71_stock_vw_bus_metal_air_cleaner_unit_17_3590000429135514035.jpg)
This image may not last long, but it is a '71 with attached thermostat.
Preheater duct is nestled between the right exchanger and the case:
![Image](http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x133/73VW1800/IAC%2014%2009/10GA41.jpg)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- fredg
- I'm New!
- Location: NH Coast
- Status: Offline
Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Thank you! Those are worth a thousand words, maybe two.
I'm almost on the road!
I'm almost on the road!
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: 1966 T1 oil bath air cleaner on 1600 DP?
Pictures and itinerary . . .fredg wrote:Thank you! Those are worth a thousand words, maybe two.
I'm almost on the road!
ColinOrItAin'tReallyHappening
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles