Bodywork On The Fly

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Amskeptic
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Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:14 pm

Let's say you have evidence of prior bodywork done when your beloved objet d'arte was just a VW bus. On the BobD, both front doors were nibbled by small hits that were very poorly repaired, so I had to re-do both sides with the promise to stay within the "footprint" of the repair's poorly matched paint. These are do-it-yourself anywhere you want instructions:

Image


Step 1. Sand the damaged area to the edge where damage is not evident. In my case, I chose not to repair the slightly botched metalwork beyond the original repair because the original paint is so nice. Use 140 to get past the respray paint then 320 grit to smooth. Stay within the damaged area only, no drifting out of the boundary, so later you have some room to transition your repair work/paint towards the undamaged area. You can see a little feathering just past my sanding. Uncovered secrets include holes used to pull the sheetmetal:

Image

The sanding is to see what you are dealing with, it is forensic, not repair. Here you can see a couple of high spots, around the drilled hole, just to the right of the hole and a little arc further up. I tried to tap the hole in a little bit, but you can't get carried away, a bonk might just cave the whole area in (these high spots make for later annoyance because you have to build up the surrounding surface to "bury" them).

Image

Step 2. Apply filler. I used only spot putty, bondo is the usual filler when you need to fill potholes and canyons. Because spot putty behaves poorly when you cake it on deep like I did (it lifts off as you try to smooth and sand it), you might have to come up with a street solution. Mine was to apply it with . . . GumOut! to help it lay down. Use pressure to knead it down and bond. Keep your finger wet with GumOut to help lay it down densely without lifting and sticking to your finger. Build it up in thin layers and allow to dry over night. I am sure that California will tell you that putty on your skin kills. Apply just past your sanding edge so it can fill the minor sanding scratches that occurred in the your initial sanding-to-old-respray boundary area. Here I have just begun to dry sand the first application of spot putty with 800 grit sandpaper wrapped around a popsicle stick to see if the surface was raised high enough. Use a wire brush to clean out any stuck-on putty in the sandpaper so it will last. Sand very lightly. Let the grit do its work, no pressure. By the time I was down to smooth, I had a couple of small craters and one crescent metal edge around the aforementioned raised edge of that stupid drilled hole which must have puckered when the original repair chimp slide-hammered the dent out:

Image

. . . so I had to lay down a new layer of GumOut wetted spot putty and lay it slightly past my first putty job since I had to raise the entire surface a little bit. Luckily, still within the poorly matched respray area, I had to contour the putty in a slight "swell" around the rim of the puckered hole. Allow to dry for at least several hours.

Step 3. Sand very lightly, starting with 320 if it looks like a moonscape, 600 grit if it is pretty smooth. Switch to 800 as soon as you have a decent level. The popsicle stick allows you to find the greatest "average elevation" for the largest surface area, but still allows you to customize the landscaping a bit to cover problems. Here, the final dry sanding with 1000 grit shows the double layer of putty as tree rings, it shows you how I now am closer to the very edge of the original repair respray boundary, and it shows just the bare beginning of hitting the rim of the hole, and it shows a new high spot just about to peek out along the bottom. Barely got a smooth surface in time to stop:

Image

Step 4. Personally, I recommend a nice brush application of sandable primer on small repairs. Spray application means a lot of masking and primer dust will still envelop your car. Instead, I spray primer into a can cap, and use a stupidly small brush very quickly starting at the top right and working my way down to lower left in horizontal strokes taking advantage of gravity to help the paint creep down. I go right to the boundary of the original respray. After the first layer, my second layer is applied almost immediately, the interval is determined by how long it takes to clean the brush and the cap with . . . what else, GumOut. You do NOT want any first coat paint drying in the cap and brush to contaminate the second application, even if a simple respray in the cap seems to reliquify things, don't do it. Apply second layer slightly past the boundary of the first. This helps you feather the repair at the edges. Apply at a slight tilt to the first, like 20* from horizontal to reduce stripes. Apply third layer in a reverse tilt. Allow to dry for two or three hours or overnight:

Image

Step 5. Now you want to wet-sand. Stick a little water in a little dish with a drop of detergent. Use only 1000 grit wet-or-dry sand paper wrapped around your popsicle stick endlessly. Grey soup will be generated. Dry with a clean damp terrycloth washcloth. You will feel stripes under your popsicle stick. Do not be inspired to speed up the process. It will magically melt away in due time. Each time you dry the area, you will see your progress, flat finish where the sandpaper has hit, shiny in the valleys. If you accidentally hit the putty/bondo/metal, just keep going. Finally, do a flat hand sanding with your open palm with plenty of water. Your nerve endings will point out any imperfections underhand. You may need to repeat the primer application and sanding. Use the wet surface to see how nicely you got the surface built up and see where any imperfections may lay. You can try a wide sweeping sanding that botches everything up if you have raised areas. Low areas may need a repeat of the entire process. Here is a completed primer application and finish sanding. Allow to dry for at least 24 hours:

Image

Image

Step 6. Finish coat I applied the same as primer to allow me to final-color-match right in the cap, since the touch-up paint was a typically lousy match from the supplier. In my case, I had to match the paint in the sun to catch that luminescent power yellow that recedes in the shade (where all of these paint guys do their Taigagrun matching indoors). Here you finally apply the paint past the boundary right onto the original paint by 1/2" or so.

In the sun:
Image

Sort of in shade:
Image

Step 7. Last step is to wet color sand with 1000 grit wet dry, open palm hand sand. And here it is, one week after letting the paint cure, the final 2000 grit color sand followed by a rigorous 3M Polishing Compound, followed by a Mothers California Gold wax job.
Image


Very satisfying to do it yourself and exceed the "professional".
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,865 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 132,040 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:07 pm

So, here are the other body work jobs performed on the BobD in the past three weeks:

A) Repaired Scoop Dent, BOB!

BEFORE:
Image

AFTER:
Image
Image

Note: Sherwin Williams L90D paint was too white. A little Rustoleum Gloss Black toned it down perfectly. Had to brush apply the paint since color matching could only occur in the cap to the spray can, and endlessly color sand the repair area. Feel free to play with your own paint adjustments

B) Repainted Then Discovered Lousy Filler Job Right Rear Quarter:
BEFORE:
Image
Image

DURING:
Image
Image

AFTER:
Image
Image

C) Pimple Ding Repair At Left Taillamp
BEFORE:
Image

AFTER:
Image
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,865 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 132,040 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

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vwlover77
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by vwlover77 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:44 am

Please clarify how you applied the final color... With a brush? Really? How about that larger repair of the taillight area? Amazing results! Can't wait to see the BobD in person again.
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:29 am

vwlover77 wrote:Please clarify how you applied the final color... With a brush? Really? How about that larger repair of the taillight area? Amazing results! Can't wait to see the BobD in person again.
With a Prang Watercolor brush, the little red handled job you see in the plastic paint set you give your young children. Truly stupid for the tail light job, just totally stupid, but it is all I had. I tried to make a checkerboard texture of paint stripes with the notion that color sanding would bring it down to the orange peel look of the original paint, but it did not quite work out that way.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,865 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 132,040 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by hambone » Sun May 19, 2013 8:11 pm

I have a question or 2:
just finished painting the '72 Beetle today, but alas there are a lot of drips. Will 400 wet sanding going on up to 1000 blend into that new paint, similar to your method?
How long should I let the paint cure before I mess with it? It's a single stage urethane. Is this task practical for a whole car?

I wasn't used to dealing with such thin paint, and think I needed to wait longer between coats. Also, it was really hard to see subsequent layers of that yellow, there was a lot of guesswork which is NOT good for painting. Man I really need someone who knows what they're doing to show me how to paint like that, it is not what I expected. Very different from spray can painting. Aside from the drips, it's pretty shiny at least.
I don't think I'd paint another entire vehicle in my current shop, it's just too small, dark and dirty despite my best efforts. :angryfire:
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http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by hambone » Mon May 20, 2013 3:35 pm

This was very helpful believe it or not:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2182233_wet-sand-paint-car.html
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Amskeptic » Thu May 23, 2013 2:30 pm

hambone wrote:I have a question or 2:
just finished painting the '72 Beetle today, but alas there are a lot of drips. Will 400 wet sanding going on up to 1000 blend into that new paint, similar to your method?
How long should I let the paint cure before I mess with it? It's a single stage urethane. Is this task practical for a whole car?

I wasn't used to dealing with such thin paint, and think I needed to wait longer between coats. Also, it was really hard to see subsequent layers of that yellow, there was a lot of guesswork which is NOT good for painting. Man I really need someone who knows what they're doing to show me how to paint like that, it is not what I expected. Very different from spray can painting. Aside from the drips, it's pretty shiny at least.
I don't think I'd paint another entire vehicle in my current shop, it's just too small, dark and dirty despite my best efforts. :angryfire:
Hello Hambone, 400 grit might be too aggressive. You don't have to "see" the paint when you are laying down successive coats. Probably the biggest error in paint delivery is to try to make it do the gloss thing while spraying. That makes people over-paint. Your paint delivery can end up foggy and still sand/polish out to a beautiful shine. Painting is just laying down particles with a solvent delivery system that has to then get out the way, it needs to deliver the paint then evaporate. Too much solvent on the way to the car runs. Not enough, and the paint particles stand up and give you a textured surface. It is preferable to have several semi-thin coats applied deep enough to sand down. You have to trust that the foggy first couple of coats will "lie down" with a medium final coat where the solvent is allowed to help "melt" the prior coats down.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,865 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 132,040 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

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hambone
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by hambone » Fri May 24, 2013 9:57 pm

It is a strange process, and I did notice the weird dusty finish at first, flowing into smoothness. It's confusing!

I have wet-sanded down all the drips, and have to re-paint the passenger side. I am going to take it easy, and let more time lapse between coats.
I have another question, after wet sanding with 1500, the paint is now "dusty" - will the 3M Polishing Compound bring the shine back? Should I get an electric buffer, or is it better by hand? I have to do a lot of the car.
If you do use a buffer, is it to remove the polishing compound? I'd imagine you still apply it by hand, and let it dry.
Thanks a lot! I'll be glad when I'm done with this process.
Is this the stuff?
Image
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Amskeptic » Sat May 25, 2013 9:53 am

1500 grit should be a satiny scratchy surface that makes you feel bad.
Then, after a good compounding with 3M Rubbing Compound, you will be deliriously happy
with the shine that you then "seal" with carnauba wax.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,865 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 132,040 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Boxcar » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:14 am

Working on a paint mixing kit to produce L90D "pastelweiss".

Using some small cans of enamel I have.
flat white,a (medium)sea blue,(bright) forest green,black.
I got close yesterday, on first try.

Was thinking I need a Hunter Green.but I don't know.

A) what do I need to make pastelwhite?

yes,art school dropout. I drew nude women, and ~but forgot how to paint those ladies
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:35 pm

Boxcar wrote: A) what do I need to make pastelwhite?

yes,art school dropout. I drew nude women, and ~but forgot how to paint those ladies
Go to Auto paint store and give them the L90D paint code. They will have the recipe.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 206,865 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 132,040 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,570 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 94,225 miles

Boxcar
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Boxcar » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:46 am

=D>
tmp_13966190044880697098733.jpg
tmp_13966190044880697098733.jpg (2.77 KiB) Viewed 6161 times
Amskeptic wrote:
Boxcar wrote: A) what do I need to make pastelwhite?

yes,art school dropout. I drew nude women, and ~but forgot how to paint those ladies
Go to Auto paint store and give them the L90D paint code. They will have the recipe.
thanks, will share as I figure it out.
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

Boxcar
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Boxcar » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:52 am

it seems white,green,black,red/yellow=orange are major L90D players.
will try some more today, and see.
My pinstriper buddy, also mentioned white is the hardest to match.so psyched am I.

The Devil is in the Details Part: 4Million.

Samba had a post of %tages
it went something like
98.7%White
.3~.2%Black
.5%Yellow
.5%Green.
This is a passable mix. Not perfect but if one needs to absolutely try to match with hardware store materials,here is another option.
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by 69doublecab » Wed May 27, 2015 12:08 am

Just joined/ active in the last hour, but no stranger to some of you, having been on type2 list and theSamba.
Life is a little crazy the last few years but now retired and divorced and FINALLY back in possession of my shop. My goal is to finish a few vehicles/ project to thin the herd.
The last year I have gone to area technical school to try to fill in the gaps in my auto body repair/ restoration skills. I have learned a lot and get to use state of the art paint mixing system from S-W. Next year- waterborne. Ughh!
Actually, many of my projects will involve paint matching or even patina matching or in the case of my December 1955 single cab, matching and de-patinaing. Original paint, but damn little. If I wanted a gray car why did I buy a dove blue one?
So, likely I will perhaps try to super reduce Dove blue and give it a "wash" to see if I can blue it up a little. Also on deck are a 58 Samba deluxe and a whole bunch of others. Some will need complete paint jobs. some touching/ panel matching or blending. Matching is even a tricky business on new cars sometime 6-8 ALTERNATIVE FORMULAS! Both my teachers are highly skilled at this.
I'm fan of old time paint. but it is getting harder to find anything in one stage.
There is truly a lot to know.
Mostly for now, I will watch and listen.
Al Brase

Boxcar
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Re: Bodywork On The Fly

Post by Boxcar » Wed May 27, 2015 10:35 am

I mixed up seasonal rust remediation paint batches. In small tins. Major paint,white getting 100 drops. Ok "drops" is a variable.
Trying to match Pastelweiss.

Ok, not every busses color. But read on.
I found that practice does yield some insight. (Must of mixed twenty times. Over the course of a year.)
So far the play of yellow is not to be underestimated,adds a creamy to the harsh white. The tiny bit of black knocks it all down. The green possibly somehow knocks it down into a more vibrant off white/offsetting the lifeless black.
Yes Autozone will make up a can. Hope to try it once my remediations last into solid improvements.
Boxcar//Eric
OH and btw, I still think Colin's thread here is great. If winter 14/15 didn't stay so long I would be working on permanently dispatching these rust blooms,instead of seasonally catching up!
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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