Rivet vs Welding

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:21 am

This might be a crazy idea, but I was wondering if anyone had any success riveting on body parts? I've been scratching my head on what to do with the nose clip on my van. I needs to be replaced. I have a donor van with a very nice nose piece.

I don't have a welder. I don't really want to buy one and go through the learning process.

What do you think about riveting the nose piece in place and using body filler over the rivets? Can it been done? Has it been done?

A body guy told me 1500 for parts and labor and that's not including a new windshield, which I also need. My donor van has a good windshield, but I was told to buy a new one, because they become brittle over the years.

I really want to do it myself, the only thing holding me back is the welding.

What say you?

Post by **Amskeptic** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:43 am

Manfred wrote:This might be a crazy idea, but I was wondering if anyone had any success riveting on body parts? I've been scratching my head on what to do with the nose clip on my van. I needs to be replaced. I have a donor van with a very nice nose piece.

I don't have a welder. I don't really want to buy one and go through the learning process.

What do you think about riveting the nose piece in place and using body filler over the rivets? Can it been done? Has it been done?

A body guy told me 1500 for parts and labor and that's not including a new windshield, which I also need. My donor van has a good windshield, but I was told to buy a new one, because they become brittle over the years.

I really want to do it myself, the only thing holding me back is the welding.

What say you?

I question the ability of rivets and your craftsmanship to hold things together with the required rigidity. Even something so simple and stupid as the headlight grounds will work against the rivets over time as the electrical current erodes the security of the rivet/sheetmetal sandwich. Add to that the torsional flexing of the body shell.
ColinButWhatTheHellGoFerIt

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:46 am

Good point. I didn't think about the electricity flow. I guess I could always attach some zinc some where, but that is a bit much.

Nuts! (kicks a can) Thanks for the input.

bretski · Post by **bretski** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:44 am

Just a thought: Our "new economy" has plenty of folks looking for side work. Put an ad on your local CL inquiring about doing some welding for you. You might get a deal...

spiffy · Post by **spiffy** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:48 am

I admire your ingenuity but I respectfully submit that riveting would be considered a hack of epic proportions.

I think the old windshield will work fine. Careful with them money grubbin shop-types

grandfatherjim · Post by **grandfatherjim** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:10 am

You could rivet it in to get it placed, and then take it to a buddy with a mig to weld it.
I think that's what I'd do.
If your other windshield isn't out of its vehicle yet don't count on it....
Jim

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:21 am

grandfatherjim wrote:You could rivet it in to get it placed, and then take it to a buddy with a mig to weld it.
I think that's what I'd do.
If your other windshield isn't out of its vehicle yet don't count on it....
Jim

That might be a good solution. Get it ready for welding. My fear is that a guy that is no familiar with VWs might screw up the dimensions and I then I couldn't fit the window in it.

This way I can get all the rust cleaned up. But I just thought of another problem. I'm not familiar with how to cut a noise piece out. I know you need to keep a lip to have something to weld too.

satchmo · Post by **satchmo** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:49 pm

As someone with both riveting skills and welding skills (minimal, but some), I would not attempt a nose replacement on my own by either method. I'm not sure what year bus you have, but there are like a million spot welds that must be drilled out to get your replacement panel ready, and a million more that need to be removed to take your old panel off. Then you get the fun of duplicating all those spot welds with new tack welds. And the door seams and window edges need to line up just so. Not worth it in my opinion.

I paid something like $2500 to have the front of my '73 replaced, then another $1000 to paint everything below the windows at the same time the nose was painted.

I suppose you could bargain with someone who is skilled at body work to help them in whatever capacity they were willing to have you help (like the endless hours drilling out the spot welds or grinding down the new spot mig welds). But I almost guarantee that you won't be happy with a rivet job.

I can send you some pics of how involved this job was on my bus if you are interested.

Good luck, Tim

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:40 am

Thanks, Tim.

I'm beginning to think the guy quoted me a good price and I should just be happy with that.

Maybe, I'll just try and bang out what I have, rust proof it, an throw a bra over it for now.

I did put an ad on CL asking for a body guy. I found a guy that works for a VW shop. He told me he wouldn't attempt it outside of his shop.

Thanks everyone. As always your input has been invaluable.

I'll try and keep you updated as I progress with my project. I'm finally in my garage and ripping things up.

Gypsie · Post by **Gypsie** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 am

Manfred wrote: Maybe, I'll just try and bang out what I have, rust proof it, an throw a bra over it for now.

I like this idea. Simple and maintains a good AGS factor.

chitwnvw · Post by **chitwnvw** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:58 am

http://www.type2.com/library/body/nosepan.htm

If you need more convincing, here's a partial repair:

http://www.specialpatrolgroup.co.uk/spo ... creen.html

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:14 am

No thanks.

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:38 am

Ok so I put an ad on craigs list and found a young guy that works for a body shop. I guess the owner has restored VW buses and this young guy wants to learn. He's going to do it on the side for me. We agreed no new nose piece. He's pretty confident he can get the nose in acceptable condition and primer it for me for a 1k. They also have a frame machine that will help get the nose fixed and fix the passenger side door working correctly. I'm planning on giving him the bus mid May. keep your fingers crossed.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:02 pm

Manfred wrote:Ok so I put an ad on craigs list and found a young guy that works for a body shop. I guess the owner has restored VW buses and this young guy wants to learn. He's going to do it on the side for me. We agreed no new nose piece. He's pretty confident he can get the nose in acceptable condition and primer it for me for a 1k. They also have a frame machine that will help get the nose fixed and fix the passenger side door working correctly. I'm planning on giving him the bus mid May. keep your fingers crossed.

Please note that a bonked nose has nowhere near the integrity of a straight one. That "styling line" around the fresh air intake and headlamps, like the one inboard of the perimeter of the roof, stiffens the sheetmetal. Once there is a crease that is subsequently pounded out, well, it is like a piece of paper that is crumpled, it will never hold its shape again. Even a nice result with pounding out and careful use of bondo, and a really nice paint job can get ugly the first time you need to push the car and have your back against the headlamp as you use your legs to shove the car. . .
Colin

Manfred · Post by **Manfred** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:03 am

Note taken. Thanks for the heads-up. This is not a permanent fix. I just want to get the rusting stopped and have the van in all around descent shape right now. I want to get the rust stopped, the heating fixed (the nose needs to be put back in order for everything to line back up), and aesthetically pleasing. This will help accomplish my goal for now.

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Rivet vs Welding

Rivet vs Welding

Re: Rivet vs Welding