1976 Westfalia - Turns Over.......Flooded?

[upnorthman]

I put the new alternator in it yesterday and drove it around for about 20 min. and everything seemed fine. I went to start it this morning and it almost started (couple of sputters) then it just went to turn over mode with nothing. I was thinking flooded because for some reason it likes to start only while I depress the gas pedal. When I was trying to start it I was pumping the pedal, which is what I normally do. What symptoms indicate a flooded engine? I understand that there are a number of things to start checking, as my time is so limited so I wanted to start here and see if my thoughts on flooding could be right. I thought I read that with FI that pressing the gas pedal should not be needed.

Could this be the time to get the new distributor and ignition from aircooled.net? Who knows when I go home for lunch it may start right up.

I am ready to get this thing running and starting right.

[spiffy]

I think I would check the timing and the vacuum system for leaks first. Might check the resistance (OHM's) on your temp sensor II and the connections on your AFM with the harness unplugged.

[upnorthman]

Timing I am not savvy on yet. How could I check timing and vac leaks without being able to start it?
For the temp sensor, is there resistance when I have the ignition on or do I need someone to crank it while I have my voltmeter connected?
When you say checking the connections, do you mean looking at them?
Sorry, as I learn troubleshooting I am also learning how this thing operates, so lots of questions!

[spiffy]

Maybe someone one here knows the method to statically time the type 4. I haven't done it before but it would get you close enough to rule that out. Do you have points? If so are they adjusted correctly?

The connections on the AFM are tested with your volt meter and I think VWBR had posted the specs on what resistance ranges you should see and the method to test them. I'll do some digging around.....

Basically you need to start ruling out problems with the "big three" ie...air, fuel, spark.

[spiffy]

Here are some links to the Bosch FI Manual, amazingly helpful.

http://manuals.type4.org/ljet/

http://bama.ua.edu/~darren/boschindex.html

[upnorthman]

Thanks spiffy, I don't know if they are adjusted correctly.

It looks like I need to pick up some tools for the FI.

However, it was working so well yesterday. That makes me think that something fried/died in the starting system. I keep thinking that it is something simple. What could cause it to not get a spark? temp sensor?
I really hate not having the know how.

[spiffy]

Do you have the Bentley? If so, just start going throught the step by step process and you will be surprised how much you learn.

[dtrumbo]

Since this all started with the alternator change, retrace your steps and see if anything is loose/disconnected etc. The coincidence is too large to ignore.

BTW, the FI motor does not need any throttle input to start so if you're having to pump the pedal, which only allows more air into the engine, not fuel, something isn't right.

Check the easy stuff first. make sure both of the white plugs on the bottom of the double relay are on good and tight. Here's a pic for reference.



The double relay is the smaller of the two silver cans you see in the photo. The larger one above it is the resistor pack which is what allows you injectors to function. For the how-do-it-do-what-it-do.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/DoubleRelay.html

Like Spiffy said, make sure the "big three" are there. Air (probably fine unless you left a rag or something stuffed in the air cleaner), Fuel (double relay/fuel pump), and Spark (coil, including the wire going from the coil to the ECU). Also make sure the connector on the AFM didn't get bumped loose.

[Amskeptic]

For fun, wait several hours then try to start by beginning with foot off accelerator 3 seconds) then slowly depressing your accelerator all the way to the floor (at least 15 seconds). Whadjooget?
Colin
(if you have points make sure gap is at least .016")

[upnorthman]

Colin, nothin'
Points I will check those (need to learn how) but it started fine yesterday.

dtrumbo,
connections are good- I agree to much of a coincidence. Sounds like cold start valve is bad, but I have had to push the pedal every time before.
Connector on AFM?

When I was putting the positive cable on the battery yesterday, sparks went a flyin' but the charge on the batt. was 14.8 when it was running so I thought nothing was wrong.

I will start with the Bentley stuff later tonight or in the morn.
Thanks to all

[dtrumbo]

Connector on AFM?

In this pic, it's the black rubber-hooded connector on the back side of the box with the square black lid that says "Bosch" on it next to the blue aluminum box with fins on it. Your bus may or may not have the blue box, just using it for a positional reference in this photo.

When I was putting the positive cable on the battery yesterday, sparks went a flyin' but the charge on the batt. was 14.8 when it was running so I thought nothing was wrong.

Sounds like you've got quite a current draw, even when the key is off. You might want to check that out sometime as well. That might also explain the original need for the new alternator.

What does the battery voltage read when the engine is off? If it's drooping to around 10 volts, the bus won't start, ask me why I know. The Bosch FI system needs a good 12 volts to run so if your battery is low, the starter will still turn the engine over, but the bus won't start because the ECU isn't getting the proper voltage. Humorous story goes along with this, but I'll save it for later.

[upnorthman]

Sounds like you've got quite a current draw, even when the key is off. You might want to check that out sometime as well. That might also explain the original need for the new alternator.

Interesting I was told by the alternator guy that about 15 at the battery (when running) should be good. He said if it was 16 or 17 I would need to pull the alternator to replace ...........ah can't remember...............

I checked the battery before I hooked it back up yesterday and if I remember right it was 12.6.

Thanks for the photo, I'll check that when I get home.

With the exception of a dinner tonight I should have some time to get in there and make sure I gettin' the three. I was hoping that someone here was going to say oh you fried 'this' just replace it...............

[dtrumbo]

Interesting I was told by the alternator guy that about 15 at the battery (when running) should be good. He said if it was 16 or 17 I would need to pull the alternator to replace

That would be true if you had a "modern" alternator with an internal regulator. However, you have an external regulator (it's on the passenger side of the firewall next to that blue-finned box in the pic I posted).

I checked the battery before I hooked it back up yesterday and if I remember right it was 12.6.

That's perfect, so you're battery is probably fine.

I was hoping that someone here was going to say oh you fried 'this' just replace it...............

I don't want to send you off on a wild-goose chase, but is it possible you were sold an incorrect alternator and now you may in fact have fried something?

[upnorthman]

It had crossed my mind. I trust the alternator guy but I could double check with him. He has been rebuilding them for 15 years and he really tried to save the old one. The one I got (through) him is a rebuild and it seemed identical in every way. He ordered the replacement based on the number off the old one, I watched him do it. It ended up costing me more than one from say Bus Depot but he worked for so long on my old one that I just bought it through him.

[dtrumbo]

Sounds like you're o.k. there too. Let us know what you find this evening.