1976 Westfalia - Turns Over.......Flooded?
- upnorthman
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Elk Rapids, MI
- Status: Offline
1976 Westfalia - Turns Over.......Flooded?
I put the new alternator in it yesterday and drove it around for about 20 min. and everything seemed fine. I went to start it this morning and it almost started (couple of sputters) then it just went to turn over mode with nothing. I was thinking flooded because for some reason it likes to start only while I depress the gas pedal. When I was trying to start it I was pumping the pedal, which is what I normally do. What symptoms indicate a flooded engine? I understand that there are a number of things to start checking, as my time is so limited so I wanted to start here and see if my thoughts on flooding could be right. I thought I read that with FI that pressing the gas pedal should not be needed.
Could this be the time to get the new distributor and ignition from aircooled.net? Who knows when I go home for lunch it may start right up.
I am ready to get this thing running and starting right.
Could this be the time to get the new distributor and ignition from aircooled.net? Who knows when I go home for lunch it may start right up.
I am ready to get this thing running and starting right.
1976 Sage Green Westy
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
- upnorthman
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Elk Rapids, MI
- Status: Offline
Timing I am not savvy on yet. How could I check timing and vac leaks without being able to start it?
For the temp sensor, is there resistance when I have the ignition on or do I need someone to crank it while I have my voltmeter connected?
When you say checking the connections, do you mean looking at them?
Sorry, as I learn troubleshooting I am also learning how this thing operates, so lots of questions!
For the temp sensor, is there resistance when I have the ignition on or do I need someone to crank it while I have my voltmeter connected?
When you say checking the connections, do you mean looking at them?
Sorry, as I learn troubleshooting I am also learning how this thing operates, so lots of questions!
1976 Sage Green Westy
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
- spiffy
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Walla Walla, WA
- Status: Offline
Maybe someone one here knows the method to statically time the type 4. I haven't done it before but it would get you close enough to rule that out. Do you have points? If so are they adjusted correctly?
The connections on the AFM are tested with your volt meter and I think VWBR had posted the specs on what resistance ranges you should see and the method to test them. I'll do some digging around.....
Basically you need to start ruling out problems with the "big three" ie...air, fuel, spark.
The connections on the AFM are tested with your volt meter and I think VWBR had posted the specs on what resistance ranges you should see and the method to test them. I'll do some digging around.....
Basically you need to start ruling out problems with the "big three" ie...air, fuel, spark.
78 Riviera "Spiffy"
67 Riviera "Bill"
67 Riviera "Bill"
- spiffy
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Walla Walla, WA
- Status: Offline
Here are some links to the Bosch FI Manual, amazingly helpful.
http://manuals.type4.org/ljet/
http://bama.ua.edu/~darren/boschindex.html
http://manuals.type4.org/ljet/
http://bama.ua.edu/~darren/boschindex.html
78 Riviera "Spiffy"
67 Riviera "Bill"
67 Riviera "Bill"
- upnorthman
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Elk Rapids, MI
- Status: Offline
Thanks spiffy, I don't know if they are adjusted correctly.
It looks like I need to pick up some tools for the FI.
However, it was working so well yesterday. That makes me think that something fried/died in the starting system. I keep thinking that it is something simple. What could cause it to not get a spark? temp sensor?
I really hate not having the know how.
It looks like I need to pick up some tools for the FI.
However, it was working so well yesterday. That makes me think that something fried/died in the starting system. I keep thinking that it is something simple. What could cause it to not get a spark? temp sensor?
I really hate not having the know how.
1976 Sage Green Westy
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
- dtrumbo
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Mill Creek, WA
- Status: Offline
Since this all started with the alternator change, retrace your steps and see if anything is loose/disconnected etc. The coincidence is too large to ignore.
BTW, the FI motor does not need any throttle input to start so if you're having to pump the pedal, which only allows more air into the engine, not fuel, something isn't right.
Check the easy stuff first. make sure both of the white plugs on the bottom of the double relay are on good and tight. Here's a pic for reference.
The double relay is the smaller of the two silver cans you see in the photo. The larger one above it is the resistor pack which is what allows you injectors to function. For the how-do-it-do-what-it-do.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/DoubleRelay.html
Like Spiffy said, make sure the "big three" are there. Air (probably fine unless you left a rag or something stuffed in the air cleaner), Fuel (double relay/fuel pump), and Spark (coil, including the wire going from the coil to the ECU). Also make sure the connector on the AFM didn't get bumped loose.
BTW, the FI motor does not need any throttle input to start so if you're having to pump the pedal, which only allows more air into the engine, not fuel, something isn't right.
Check the easy stuff first. make sure both of the white plugs on the bottom of the double relay are on good and tight. Here's a pic for reference.
The double relay is the smaller of the two silver cans you see in the photo. The larger one above it is the resistor pack which is what allows you injectors to function. For the how-do-it-do-what-it-do.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/DoubleRelay.html
Like Spiffy said, make sure the "big three" are there. Air (probably fine unless you left a rag or something stuffed in the air cleaner), Fuel (double relay/fuel pump), and Spark (coil, including the wire going from the coil to the ECU). Also make sure the connector on the AFM didn't get bumped loose.
- Dick
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
For fun, wait several hours then try to start by beginning with foot off accelerator 3 seconds) then slowly depressing your accelerator all the way to the floor (at least 15 seconds). Whadjooget?
Colin
(if you have points make sure gap is at least .016")
Colin
(if you have points make sure gap is at least .016")
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- upnorthman
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Elk Rapids, MI
- Status: Offline
Colin, nothin'
Points I will check those (need to learn how) but it started fine yesterday.
dtrumbo,
connections are good- I agree to much of a coincidence. Sounds like cold start valve is bad, but I have had to push the pedal every time before.
Connector on AFM?
When I was putting the positive cable on the battery yesterday, sparks went a flyin' but the charge on the batt. was 14.8 when it was running so I thought nothing was wrong.
I will start with the Bentley stuff later tonight or in the morn.
Thanks to all
Points I will check those (need to learn how) but it started fine yesterday.
dtrumbo,
connections are good- I agree to much of a coincidence. Sounds like cold start valve is bad, but I have had to push the pedal every time before.
Connector on AFM?
When I was putting the positive cable on the battery yesterday, sparks went a flyin' but the charge on the batt. was 14.8 when it was running so I thought nothing was wrong.
I will start with the Bentley stuff later tonight or in the morn.
Thanks to all
1976 Sage Green Westy
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
- dtrumbo
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Mill Creek, WA
- Status: Offline
upnorthman wrote:Connector on AFM?
In this pic, it's the black rubber-hooded connector on the back side of the box with the square black lid that says "Bosch" on it next to the blue aluminum box with fins on it. Your bus may or may not have the blue box, just using it for a positional reference in this photo.
Sounds like you've got quite a current draw, even when the key is off. You might want to check that out sometime as well. That might also explain the original need for the new alternator.upnorthman wrote:When I was putting the positive cable on the battery yesterday, sparks went a flyin' but the charge on the batt. was 14.8 when it was running so I thought nothing was wrong.
What does the battery voltage read when the engine is off? If it's drooping to around 10 volts, the bus won't start, ask me why I know. The Bosch FI system needs a good 12 volts to run so if your battery is low, the starter will still turn the engine over, but the bus won't start because the ECU isn't getting the proper voltage. Humorous story goes along with this, but I'll save it for later.
- Dick
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
- upnorthman
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Elk Rapids, MI
- Status: Offline
Interesting I was told by the alternator guy that about 15 at the battery (when running) should be good. He said if it was 16 or 17 I would need to pull the alternator to replace ...........ah can't remember...............Sounds like you've got quite a current draw, even when the key is off. You might want to check that out sometime as well. That might also explain the original need for the new alternator.
I checked the battery before I hooked it back up yesterday and if I remember right it was 12.6.
Thanks for the photo, I'll check that when I get home.
With the exception of a dinner tonight I should have some time to get in there and make sure I gettin' the three. I was hoping that someone here was going to say oh you fried 'this' just replace it...............
1976 Sage Green Westy
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
- dtrumbo
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Mill Creek, WA
- Status: Offline
That would be true if you had a "modern" alternator with an internal regulator. However, you have an external regulator (it's on the passenger side of the firewall next to that blue-finned box in the pic I posted).upnorthman wrote:Interesting I was told by the alternator guy that about 15 at the battery (when running) should be good. He said if it was 16 or 17 I would need to pull the alternator to replace
That's perfect, so you're battery is probably fine.upnorthman wrote:I checked the battery before I hooked it back up yesterday and if I remember right it was 12.6.
I don't want to send you off on a wild-goose chase, but is it possible you were sold an incorrect alternator and now you may in fact have fried something?upnorthman wrote:I was hoping that someone here was going to say oh you fried 'this' just replace it...............
- Dick
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.
... as it turns out, it was the coil!
- upnorthman
- Getting Hooked!
- Location: Elk Rapids, MI
- Status: Offline
It had crossed my mind. I trust the alternator guy but I could double check with him. He has been rebuilding them for 15 years and he really tried to save the old one. The one I got (through) him is a rebuild and it seemed identical in every way. He ordered the replacement based on the number off the old one, I watched him do it. It ended up costing me more than one from say Bus Depot but he worked for so long on my old one that I just bought it through him.
1976 Sage Green Westy
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
F.I. with Hyd lifters
Rebuilt once....Miles?
- dtrumbo
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Mill Creek, WA
- Status: Offline